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I'm just curious if any of you have played from another armies perspective against the whole nidzilla thing?
I think some of you would be surprised how hard one of those bastards is to kill, and now with the cover save from your own squad rule, even a lascannon isn't a perfect weapon.
Not bitching, cos no one I play against runs such a thing, I just want to hear how it all went.
I find that really shooty armies have serious issues with me now
Orcs on the other hand seem to decimate me 9 outta 10 time **figure of speech**
I haven't lost when I have brought more then 5 MC even in 3000 points, because I don't just pump them to rediculous beast; I run them with lots of little buggers. And people can historically kill either the big ones or the small ones, just not both.
The real trick is huge units with a power fist. A fex will likely kill 1 or 2 models per turn. and a tyrant will kill 2 or 3. And most monsterous creatures don't get cover from little gribblies because they have to cover more than 50% of the model and that is tough to do with anything except warriors.
I started playing 40k with Tyranids over a year ago and I loooove my bug collection. However, after I finish painting and magnetizing my last swarm, I'm actually looking at playing Tau. Knowing the absolute worst when it comes to swarms (well, there's Orks, too but who's counting?) in both CC and ranged, I think it will help me field what seems to be a somewhat fragile army. If I can make a Tau army that can beat my bugs, I will consider it a great achievement and possibly force an evolution in the way I run my 'Nids.
Yup, just gotta paint like a hundred more bugs...
Human beings, while exceptional in the ability to learn from the mistakes of others, are also remarkable for their apparent disinclination to...
Really? MC don't get cover saves from creatures like that? I'm amazed because thats what's been annoying me so much lately with all this.
Powerfists are good, but you have to be so careful, and with a lucky strike the fex can wipe the entire squad out real quick and they are left with nothing. Marines out in the open are too easy to take down, either with tons of weak fire or bloody warp blast, so I'm glad I run lots of vehicles now.
I find winning games with orks incredibly easy but against nids, its the only race I can't do a single thing against, there is just too much to compete against, and the list of abilities/powers they can get is crazy, they are the perfect elite race.
ok so i developed a "nidzilla list" but... i took the idea of nidzilla and turned it on its ear..
3 elite melee fexes
2 shooty tough 7, 5 wound, regen, 2+save twin linked devourer /spinebank fexes
3 zoanthropes with synapse and warp blast
and the part where it goes on its ear?..
4 squads of 32 spine gaunts
thats 137 models on the board at 1750
Well, the appropriate way to run a big critter list (the one I run at least) is having a squad o' 9 warriors or so. You wrap gaunts around to give cover to the warriors, who in turn concentrically wrap around the big gribblies inside, giving them cover. You wrap the gaunt squads if you want to be REALLY cheesy, intermingling them but being max spread so you can legally move, and then everything gets cover, and you have a walking ball o' cover.
Competitive Nid lists done in this fashion will generally be pure shooty, so they can just dakka things down from within their cocoon. Competent Nid players will usually rely on tactics and the inherent CC baseline-stats of their troops to handle combat if and when it comes to it.
BUUUT, in terms of dealing with it? Ork powerklaws are the best ... trukks with rams can bust through gaunt and warrior screens to dump the boyz out in front of MC's, and each squad can and will maul a monstrous creature.
The main catch with a Nidzilla is not that you can't beat it, but that it requires a very specialized list to deal with (for most armies). A "balanced" army is not going to have the right amount of high volume and decent strength shots to take down enough MC's / little buggers. The Nidzilla thrives off the fact that in tournaments, most armies aren't going to be crafted in such a way that they can tackle the Zilla, b/c doing so would risk them against other lists.
The reason Nidzilla isn't crushing the tourneys so much anymore is b/c the "generalized" Ork lists can tackle Nidzilla, and so can a couple other new "balanced" lists.
Being able to efficiently deal with monstrous creatures is the key ... focused firepower with lascannons/etc. has NEVER been the way against a canny opponent ... in 4th edition I never found myself in a situation where I couldn't give my big guys some solid cover if needed, by cannily setting up the board / working with whatever preset board was provided to me / etc.
Large squads with fists or klaws is the easiest way, b/c as mentioned most big nids can't kill all that many models / turn in close combat. Vehicle heavy lists can fare well also, especially land raider lists ... nothing is more annoying to a Nidzilla than 4 redeemers racing 12"/turn but still bbq'ing their buddies.
Nids & Guard
GMail = MVBrandt
When I play games 750 - 1500pts I bring only one or two MC to the table. and they are usually a Venom cannoned stomping tyrant with Tyrant Guard if I can afford it and a Baitfex Spinebanks, Tusked, 2x Scything Talons, +1 WS. and half of my troop collection.
In larger games only do I bring out my entire TMC collection. And I try to bring out all my troops before I do so. The Full list has extra 2x sniper fex, 2x Dakka Fex, Flying Dakka Tyrant. But then i also have 32 Hormies, 24 termies, 16 Stealers and 10 rippers.
When I play the list my opponent usually just stares at the MCs craps pants and then dies from gribblies and smaller 'Nids.
The few failures of the list include Speed freaks with a vendetta against Synapse.
Mech Eldar whom I couldn't catch.
And Mech Tau who felt it neccesary to use two devilfish to protect thier firewarriors from my charges.
I'm pawning this to everyone Check out My 'Nids Tactica and give your Oppinion. I'm Desperate for Attention.
Orks are the best at it because there are so many cheap bodies to remove before the ork nob is even close to being a direct target of the fex. And they are fairly good at CC on top of all that, doesn't make me any less scared of them though.
Anyway, be careful when you do this...it is taking me a lot of practice to get it right. If you dont set up right its easy to give the cover saves to the enemy models too.....
Oh, and blast templates can be a pain if your stuff is too close together.
How to stop Nidzilla:
- Bring Orks: Seriously, a halfway decent list just rips through any list I can come up with. Im sure there is a way to beat it but, when a few truks of meganobz (probably with Ghazguul) drop right in front of you....you now have serious problems.
- Dont play Orks? Bring anything with a power fist or a specialized CC squad. Most people dont realize that TMC's are not that great at CC, especially the ones that you find in a normal Zilla list (Gun or Dakka fexes). How you get them over there is up to you.
- Perhaps there is some sort of AV 14 all around vehicle that has a bunch of lascannons on it that can drop off a squad of assualt terminators.......hmmm, if only there was such a thing.
- Other things....many suggested by other posters.
Hive Flee Annoch
Once the game is over, the king and the pawn go back in the same box. -Italian Proverb