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So my brother and I are having a bit of a disagreement about how barrage weapons work when shooting at a squad which is behind another squad.
I think that the firer (in my case a dark reaper exarch) should be able to use the scatter roll minus his ballistic skill when shooting at a squad behind another squad. My reasoning is that the rulebook says that if the shooter is shooting at a target he cannot see, then he doesn't get to subtract his ballistic skill from the scatter roll. However, since he can partially see the target then he still gets to subtract his ballistic skill from the scatter roll.
My brothers argument is that since the target is obscured then he shouldn't get to subtract his ballistic skill off the scatter roll. He figures at best he should only be able to subtract 2 or 3 from the scatter roll.
So, what do you guys think...?
sorry, but i go with your bro on this one. his unit that is being shot at would take a 4+ save for being obscurred, so, why should you be able to subtract your BS? if it was a guess range weapon on the other hand, than i would say subtract away. another way around this would be to take crack shot, thusly allowing you to attack into cover without any saves, therefore allowing you to subtract your BS from your role. IMO i might add. this is a tricky situation. if there can't be a reasonable resolve do one of two things. 1=dice off, 1-3 yes, 4-6 no. 2 = take a smaller number of points instead of the full five. cut it back to 3. work something out, so that you can get on with your game. sorry if i confused ya a bit there, but i think i answered your question correctly. like i said, IMO.
War is my master; Death my mistress.
Cheart, you are absolutely correct. Whether the target would normally receive a cover save is irrelevant. As per the barrage rules on pg. 32 of the BRB, if you can draw line of sight to any part of the target model you can subtract your BS. You already pointed out the relevant exception, which is only if the target is out of line of sight. Cover saves have nothing to do with it. A good rule of thumb is that as long as a regular blast weapon would normally be able to fire at the target (regardless of cover), your barrage gets to subtract the BS.
He he that was my argument too, if a normal modal can shoot at it then I should be able to subtract the BS. Now comes the hard part, convincing my brother that I'm right...
I'd just point to the part where it says "all barrage weapons use blast markers, and consequently use the rules for blast weapons..." It's the same as a regular blast except it ignores intervening terrain. But if he's really trying to be difficult, make him be the one to justify his clearly wrong position. Tell him to find the rule in the book that says it works that way, and when he can't hopefully he'll let it go. Failing that, dreadsock!
Sorry trav but I agree with the original poster. It is a G-range weapon and can fire at targets they cannot see BUT an obscured target is still partially visible and you would get to subtract your BS. In addition they wound NOT get a cover save unless they are, in fact, IN cover because the shot is assumed to be coming from the blast center. You have it right and your brother is full of it. Page 32 of the BRB has your answers on barage weapons and page 62 has your answers on invervening models. If you can see it you can see it, whether the shot is "clear" is not really taken into account except with the cover save from most weapons. The tempest launcher is one weapon that gets arround the normal rules because it's just that special.
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right on guys. i should have looked in the book, but instead i went from logic and memory. i shouldn't have jumped the gun, because GW likes to make the illogical, logical. so, i am corrected. however, i was not under the impression that a barrage weapon was a guess range weapon. i severly need to read the rules again, and try to glean more of those little nuggets of information out.
War is my master; Death my mistress.
Alright, thanks for the quick responses guys, I'm sure I have enough here to convince him now