First game w Nids and in 2009 - Warhammer 40K Fantasy
 

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  1. #1
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    First game w Nids and in 2009

    Hey all,

    I've made a few posts here (some which had replies that were really quite helpful) before and now I'm back.

    First off, I just recently finished putting together my nid army, started back in late Sept. 08 and just had my first game with them. I'll get to my question soon enough but first to understand it better I'll post my list and my first game. My list is pretty standard, I've posted it before but I'll give you a quick run down on it...

    1500 pts
    Hive Ty: 2 TL Dev, Toxin S, ES & 2 Tyrant Guard.
    3 Warriors, Toxin S, Extended C, Enhanced S, 2 DS, 1VC (2 identical squads)
    2 Lictors
    12 homogaunts Toxin S
    12 Termagaunts
    3 Raveners, ST & RC
    10 Stealers w Tendrils
    1 Fex ES, Barbed S, VC

    My game was against a Ultra who is a vet to the hobby but was his second game with his list. From what I remember he had..

    Mr. T ... a.k.a. Tigurius
    8 Stern guard
    2 tact squads w Missile & flamer (10 marnies each), one squad had a razorback w HB
    5 termies, Cyclone missile
    1 land speeder w missile launcher (harpoon LS?)
    1 Pred all Las Canons
    1 Vindicator

    I'll just give some highlights of the game now. It was a game of objectives with Dawn of War.
    He broke his squads down into 5 man teams, giving him 4 scoring units to my 5.
    The second turn saw my Tyrant opening up on the stern guard from cover (whom he had attached Mr.T) and killed 3. On his turn he fired at gaunts surrounding the Tyrant from 2 tact squads and termies only splatting one.
    3rd turn he moved Mr. T and boys forwarded to my lines using his magical powers and fired at my guants this time killing quite a few (hate those ignore cover rounds!). But he had incurred my wrath and 12 hormagaunts and 10 stealers ran into him and his boys. Afterwards with full bellies the nids were picking ultra parts from their teeth having wiped the squad. Lictors came out turn 3 and 4. First one came out, jumed a squad of 5 marines and rended 1 then died to a PF. The other did the same thing but on a squad with out a fist...ung (Note to self, use more effectively). In the end the game ended on turn 6 with me winning (was expecting to loose my first 5 games or so while I get a hold on these guys, but not bad at all!). I wiped all his troops and I had 1 hormoguant holding 1 objective and 2 termagaunts holding another out of the 4 objectives.

    Couple of things I need to remember... that feeder tendrils work for other units within 2" (second last turn I had 4 stealers in HtH with 4 termies and also about 8 guants and I forgot to re-roll the to hits with the gaunts. Probably wouldn't have made much of a difference but who knows?
    Love lictors, the fluff, the idea behind them and the models, but they are definitely not worth 80 pts. Must use them better.
    Lastly the carnifex... and my main question. With the VC totally nerfed all he did (granted I forgot I had him in reserve and came in turn 3) was glance the vindy once and then kill a marine on another turn. What is the best configuration for this beast?

    I know this is a long post. Thanks for reading any who do

    Corb


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  3. #2
    Member MattyMorgs's Avatar
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    Before I'll reply I'll state that I'm not familiar with the Dawn of War rules and I don't have my book in front of me at the moment. But I can comment on the units and use thereof.

    Except in rare cases, Venom Cannons are (I hate to admit) worthless. You're probably better off sticking to Stranglers, even on your Warriors, because not only are you shooting a pie plate at decent strength, it can actually pen support and heavy armor (and possibly pin down a squad). So on your Carnie, you could replace the VC for some talons to give it an extra attack should you decide to go tank flipping. Plus that would knock it down into a possible Elite choice instead of Heavy.

    I've not run my Lictors yet, but they do seem to be a precise tool. From what I've read here and conceptualized, you'll want to pop them out on a turn you have some Hormagaunts and/or Genestealers tearing into units so you can share that beautiful reroll in CC goodness. That's the thing though, it's all timing. They aren't "throw-away" units like so many other units. They fill a specific niche and outside of it don't live very long at all. I'd figure they'd combo pretty well with the Raveners, too!

    Have you considered Infiltrating with a Broodlord and his up to 11 Genestealer retinue? Make him a 96 point monster with Sacs, Tendrils, Carapace, and Flesh Hooks then throw in 11 'Stealers at 20 a piece with Carapace of their own. That's a lot of rending and close combat that you could keep in reserve and reroll to Outflank with your two Lictors! Plus, like a 'Fex or Tyrant, the 'Lord has the ability to tear off a tank's hatch and eat its occupants.

    I hope some of these observations helped you. Good luck with those pesky Marines!
    Human beings, while exceptional in the ability to learn from the mistakes of others, are also remarkable for their apparent disinclination to...

  4. #3
    Member dude5767's Avatar
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    I run my fex with venom cannon barbed strangler and enhanced senses. The vc is useful in one very important roll even though it can only glance on heavier armor that means you can keep it from shooting which is very nice. The barbed strangler pie plate str eight is awesome you can destroy command squads narthecium be d****d and eat up rhinos vindis and even predators if they leave their side exposed.

  5. #4
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    That is the same configuration I have for my Fex, ES + VC & BS currently. But with those weapons he costs very close to 150 pts. I'm struggling with spending 150 pts on something that basically only be stunning a vechicle a turn (vs marines and such or destoying against Orks, etc). Is it truly worth it? Maybe so maybe not.

    Corb

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    Member Annoch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Corbulo View Post
    Love lictors, the fluff, the idea behind them and the models, but they are definitely not worth 80 pts. Must use them better.
    Lastly the carnifex... and my main question. With the VC totally nerfed all he did (granted I forgot I had him in reserve and came in turn 3) was glance the vindy once and then kill a marine on another turn. What is the best configuration for this beast?
    Its not really about using the lictors better...it really is that they arent quite worht the points. If they dropped the points and you could run them as a squad I think they might be worth talking about (I know that kills the fluff....). But, one lictor is rarely enough to do much of anything. Not enough attacks, and in CC his save is garbage. And on top of that he now could take a wound upon deep striking....geez.

    As for the fex...I gotta say stick with the classic Gunfex. They really arent meant to 'kill' tanks, so much as keep them from shooting/moving. The barbed strangler can also be nice anti infantry if there are no tanks/more important infantry.

    I also find that 2 gunfexes are more efficient than just one.

    You could also try the VC/TL Dev route on your HT. It takes away some of the anti infantry punch...but one more attack at higher BS can make a difference. The drawback is you are stuck at S8

    Also...keep in mind that (on the fex) the VC instakills T5 and the BS instakills T4...so point them at those pesky multi wounders and let fly.

    Finally, I might suggest dropping the VC's on the warrior squads in favor of either a BS or more DS's.

    Good Luck!
    Hive Flee Annoch

    Once the game is over, the king and the pawn go back in the same box. -Italian Proverb

  7. #6
    Member MattyMorgs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Annoch View Post
    Its not really about using the lictors better...it really is that they arent quite worht the points. If they dropped the points and you could run them as a squad I think they might be worth talking about (I know that kills the fluff....). But, one lictor is rarely enough to do much of anything. Not enough attacks, and in CC his save is garbage. And on top of that he now could take a wound upon deep striking....geez.
    I'm pretty sure that because he HAS to Deep Strike into terrain that he is immune from the effects of the hazards chart. I still agree, though, that it is a pretty expensive model but it does have it's place. While the Lictor itself may never make up for it's points itself (unless he assaults out of cover and pops a tank with his high S and Rending Claws) it is more of a "brood support" model in that when your second wave of Genestealers or Hormagaunts finally makes it up the battlefield, Dr. Zoidberg there pops out of the trees and gives them all the Feeder Tendril bonus to reroll in CC.

    Plus it will always help you save on the cost of Flesh Hooks. I promise you that unless he has a trick up his sleeve, your opponent will avoid terrain as much as possible. Turn two his Space Marines are going to wonder why his snipers stopped firing out of the old building, or why the Ork Kommandos never made it out of that last copse of trees...

    For the 80 points you have to remember that you are also getting some very, very good board control and psychological advantage against your opponent!
    Human beings, while exceptional in the ability to learn from the mistakes of others, are also remarkable for their apparent disinclination to...

  8. #7
    Member Annoch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MattyMorgs View Post
    I'm pretty sure that because he HAS to Deep Strike into terrain that he is immune from the effects of the hazards chart.
    Alas, until GW FAQ's this the Lictor has to follow the rules in the rule book.

    Does it make sense? No!

    Does it have to....sadly no....
    Hive Flee Annoch

    Once the game is over, the king and the pawn go back in the same box. -Italian Proverb

  9. #8
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    And that is the way I played them... well one at least. I remembered to roll for the 1st lictor but I forgot for the second one. Oops my bad. My opponent also has a tyranid army and was shocked when I made the roll. Oh well, hopefully they fix this soon.

    Corb

  10. #9
    Senior Member Xilconic's Avatar
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    As some people alraedy pointed out, you can use the VC on a carnifex to prevent the tank from shooting, or to try an keep it in it's place. All the while you can walk you carnifex closer to the tank, and almost certainly destroy it when you reach CC with the tank.
    The BS is great at taking out tanks (does the same job as an missle launcher does), but the blast template comes out handy too when facing big groups, who you'd like to pin down (go to the ground...).
    Myself, I prefer the carnifex with VC, BS and enhanced senses, altough I read about a version of the carnifex equiped with Barbed Strangler and Scything Talons doing well too, resembling sort of the Chaos "Spider".

    As for the Lictors, I loved those guys, until they had to deepstrike into terrain. Because of deepstrike, they often cannot arrive at the same time, so you get them piecewise on the battlefield Next to that, only 1 Lictor cannot ammount to much Close Combat, unles it was able to charge a light vehicle from cover. Lictors are great to deal with Basilisks or whirlwinds, but that's about it. However, Lictors do become more interesting in big battle, where Reserves play a big role. The reroll the give (even when they have died if I'm correctly) is just awesome! Also in Apocalypse you can take a few of them, without them being a point sink, and they are then able to arrive at the same time at the same place! Just watch the look of your opponents when all of a sudden, 6 Lictors jump from the bush!

    You could try to swap your 2 Lictors out for more gaunts, and you can then also drop the enhanced carapace of the warriors, because they'll have enought cover from the gaunts. This would lose you beloveds, but might implove your game. Just give it a try, and see if it works for you!
    Tyranids Win [31]/ Draw [0]/Lost [0]
    Daemon Hunters Win [17]/ Draw [2]/ Lost [1]
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  11. #10
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    I still use BS and VC on Fexs. Sure, they can't bust a tank with the VC but they can easily glance it and you can still get those weapon destroyed results or immobilising, as well as stunning. If the tank's not shooting, The fex has done it's job. For Tank hunting I tend to use a Flying Tyrant for biggies (Land Raider etc.) and use Genestealers and Lictors for busting smaller tanks.

    Lictors are awesome. I like to use 2 in my Vanguard force. I've got a Broodlord and retinue plus 2 broods of scuttling stealers, also I like to use 3ish Meiotic spores. Those re-rolls to get reserves in faster are awesome.

    Also note: When placing your Lictors you do so after you've made all your rolls, so you know what you've got coming in before you have to place it. I then roll for my outflanking stealers (side they appear) and place my lictors afterward. That way you can make the most of where they're going. Lictors are great at tying a unit up for a turn as well, giving your stealers a chance to get there if they can't get the charge straight away.

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