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Okay, time for the second Battle Report.
This one occured on the same evening as the first, but unfortunately it wasn't nearly as close or interesting, because I made a lot of mistakes, and I don't think the other player was quite as "Noob-Friendly" as the first player.
I brought the same army as before, in case you don't recall you find it on my first Battle Report.
Warboss w. PK and Attack Squig 100pts
2x Squad of 20 Slugga boys + Nob w. PK 310pts
2x Squads of 1 Deffkopta with TL Rokkits 90pts
The first mistake I made was letting him go first.
Don't ask why I did that. I guess it's because my friends always seem to want to go last so they can see how their opponent is setting his forces up and set theirs up in a more strategic location based on where the opponent put his. Also, when I play with my friends we roll to see who places terrain first, then again for Unit placement (which are both alternating between both players), and then finally who goes first. In this case, the unit placement and first turn are won on the same roll. Finally, I didn't know what he had in his army, and I thought my guys would be safe from heavy fire for the first turn or so. Never make that mistake again either.
The big unit that tore me up was a squad of Heavy Bolters. Took out about 5-6 boys the first turn and ditto for the second. Once again, it was the squad with the Warboss in it, so I made a leadership check and failed by rolling high again (I think it was either Box-cars or just above what I needed to roll to save them). So badda-bing! Second turn and I've already lost a squad. I also thought my Boss (and independent character) could seperate from the unit because of a previous game where my friends and I did that, but that must've changed in 5th edition, or we were just confused.
He also fired at my other squad with a plasma cannon of some kind on the first turn, but I got lucky and it drifted south of his original location and only took out 2 Boyz. He fired with the same plasma cannon on the following turn, but he failed his "Get's Hot" roll and the model died, so fortunately I didn't have to worry about that anymore.
My boyz had to go through difficult terrain again (which there seemed to be a lot more of on my side after "random" terrain placement). Which makes me wonder if I should try to squeeze my boys through a pinchpoint between to pieces of diff terrain, or just enter it. Obviously the 4+ Save is nice, but going through cover sucks because it slows you down (potentialy). However, going through a small pinchpoint could suck even more (esp if it's only 2-3 boyz wide), since you'll possibley end up with a long-stream of boys right before you want to assault, and a lot of them might be out of range. (since most won't even move their full 6").
At any rate, I rolled decent for my move out of Terrain and Run, but unfortunately, I forget to declare my Waaugh! (which I wasn't even sure if I could make due to moving out of DT. So next turn, he comes out with a flame-thrower, torches my Boyz upfront, then fires on them with the Heavy bolter squad and another squad..then assaulted!! At this point, I pretty much conceded with something around 10 boyz or so left.
P.s In regards to the Deffkoptas, I tried to fly them around and take pot-shots at various squads, but I never once had a succesful wound. I literally rolled below 5 every time with the exception of one successful wound which he somehow got a Cover save from. I also wasn't sure where to place them.
So, once again, I would to hear your opinions on what I could do better and what potential mistakes I may have made.
I also decided to provide a brief list of what I think I've learned
1. Never let your opponent go first (if you win the roll, and he's playing Shooty)
2. Always ask what your opponent has in his army. I know I presented my force and let him know what specific upgrades each unit had, because I thought it was common courtesy to do so. (he may have mentioned some names..but I didn't realize what they did) I guess next time I'll make sure to press them for more specific information
3. Think more about Terrain placement, making sure it's setup to where it doesn't hurt me (or if it's "random" make sure it's pretty balanced)
4. Never let your opponent get the Assault (since this is pretty much what killed me at the end). I knew this of course, but I didn't know how far I would make it out of D.terrain. Next time I'll just declare Waaugh to be safe.
5. Try to avoid going through Diff. Terrain if possible...depending on the circumstance..def. avoid during an assault if possible.
Last edited by Darkzephyr; January 6th, 2009 at 02:42.
Well it's good that your admitting your mistakes and writing them down publicly for the whole world to see. That's gutsy. Keep it up. (The gutsyness not the mistakes...)
You were facing Marines right?
I think the problem was the list personally. Too vanilla. I don't care if your Hive Mind or Waaagh! but you can't have masses of troops charging across the battlefield without support. It's good that you utilized terrain, and yes you can Waaagh! through it as it replaces your normal shooting attack. Either put your boyz in trukks or get some means of support like lootas, looted wagon, battlewagon, SAG, rokkitt buggies, something to draw away fire and keep your opponent's focus off the boyz.
Did you outflank with the deffkoptas or leave them on the table? Personally I would have left them on the table and used them as suicide units. As an ork it's critical that you have at least one "bait unit." Better they shoot at your single XX point model than your big expensive squad.
Oh and did he fire with heavy weapons and assualt? If so that was illegal. And as an ork you don't want to get assaulted. Smart opponents will to negate your furious charge. You just have to time it right.
So yeah. It's good that your posting these and I believe I speak for all my fellow Ork players in wishing you good luck with your next match.
The first thing I would have done is spot his devistator squad (the ones with the heavy bolters) as my biggest threat and sent at least one of the deffkoptas turboboosting into close combat with them. This would have probably saved you a subsequent round of dead boys, although you still could have lost the assault (but only 6 attacks against 2W T5 is unlikely) Yes, rokkits can blow things up, but sometimes you have to sacrifice a less effective unit to save the rest of your boyz from a big headache.
Don't be discouraged. Next game you play against a list like this, think about how to move your boys and keep them safe. With a devistator squad, he won't have much else in play, and if you tied it up for two turns you would have likely just rolled through his puny 'umie army. It takes time, and practice, and many lost battles to develop this though, so again, don't be discouraged!
Also, what was he playing? Just for clarification. If he was playing Space Marines, and I am correct in my assumtion, he cheated. Post his list just for clarification, even if you do not know the names of what he fielded, just describe how many models were in each unit and what weapons they had.
Yes I was facing Marines. I'm not sure I utilized the Terrain that well at all, unless running into it (during running phase) is a good idea. I think I should have set it up differently, because most of the hindering Terrain was on my side, while his side was more open and clear, slowing me down in the first few turns as I attempted to move in/around the Terrain...then giving him the chance to unleash holy hell as I got closer..but I'm not sure about how best to organize terrain and it is rather "random" at this place.
Oh, and in regards to the " Waauuugh!" I knew was allowed to do it, I just didn't know if I SHOULD do it because I wasn't sure I would actually get to him. Also, I think I forgot to do it before I started my Run/Shooting phase...Oh well, live and Learn.
As for the Vanillaness...
I would love to run more variety, but I don't actually have any models other than the AOBR Ork Boys, Nobz and Koptas. Of course this place doesn't care if you proxy, but I still don't have anything I think would work for a Trukk (except maybe a flat sheet of Cardboard or something, which would probably be acceptable, lol). I don't have any spare bitz right now either. But hopefully I can get a Trukk at a decent price somewhere (hoping to find some for $20 or so on Ebay..or get a massive collection from someone)...but even that's uncertain because I'm pretty broke right now.
As for the assault vs. me. he did NOT use the Heavy weapons squad in the Assault. I was actually trying to ignore that squad since they couldn't claim objectives and assault his infantry troops to win. So when I got close, he un-leashed all his firepower on me (flamer templates, Devastator HW squad and another small squad) then proceeded to assault with the nearest infantry squad.
Last edited by Darkzephyr; January 6th, 2009 at 06:48.
Marine Cheater?- If he fired at you with his bolters than assaulted then YES. He did cheat. If he switched to bolt pistols and than charged than NO he didnt' cheat.
Models- Well Black Reach is a good foundation but you'll need to get more boyz. The Battleforce is an awesome deal and GW's releasing more plastic orks this month. Maybe some grots? Or buy your favorite Imperial vehicle and orkify it. With the battleforce you'd have 60 + orks, a trukk, 5 nobz, a warboss, and 3 bikes. You could also turn those bikers into nob bikers. That will jack up your total points by a ton and give you a dead hard unit. They'll also count as troops with your warboss so extra scoring unit.
Thanks Gore, I was hoping you would reply to this Thread! I'm hoping ===Me=== will stop by soon as well. Yes he was playing Space Marines, I think this is what he had.
1. Squad of "Devastators?" with Heavy Bolters, they fired 36" and did some heavy damage. I think he fired 2-3 times per unit and there were at least 5-6 of them.
2. A regular squad of 5-6 Space Marines I think. I don't recall them doing anything special except flaming me when I got up-close and firing normal Bolt Guns w. 24" range. This is the Unit he used to assault me.
3. Another squad of 5 Marines with some Plasma gun. he fired on my guys with this one turn, but only got 2 boyz. Soon after he failed his "gets hot" roll and lost 1 model.
Funny thing is, the Main Guy who organizes this event came up to this Kid said something like "Ohh, I see running a Anti-Ork vs the new guy" as if he was intentionally taking something he knew would slaughter me. The SM player denied the claim of course and said he would run that against anyone in a 500pt battle. This was followed by some debate about the effectiveness of his list as a well-rounded army, but eventually the other guy shrugged it off.
Overall, I think the first player w/ Tau was a lot more helpful and "noob-friendly" mostly because he gave me suggestions and did'nt seem to customize his army with template weapons (he didn't take any..but I'm not sure if Tau even get them) or super Heavy weapons to utterly devastate me.
At any rate, I still had a good time vs both players. I enjoyed both games a good bit and had fun overall. I may have enjoyed the first one a lot more, but I think I learned a lot (or just made a lot of mistakes) from the relentless whipping I got in the second game.
Not discouraged or upset at all. It's still a lot of fun and I love learning and X'perimenting with differn't Army combinations!
Thanks again for the support, Fellow Ork playas!!
Last edited by Darkzephyr; January 6th, 2009 at 06:48.
Ironically, in the before he deployed his forces, I saw him start placing his units in the 4th or 5th floor of a building of Ruins in the far corner on his side, and I thought..."Holy crap, how will I assault him all the way up there (I mean this was literally a foot off the ground)
....but fortunately he decided against that and just placed his units on the ground. I'm not sure if that was a joke, or he was comptemplating being using uber-cheap tactics and decided against it.
As for getting more models/units...the GW BattleForce does seem good, but I think I might buy someone's collection for $100 or less. The first guy that played Tau is dumping his force of Orks supposedley he has $500 or so worth of units. Seems like a great deal, but even that's a little risky for me financially. As soon as I get the list I'll post it here to see if it's worth getting.
I also bought more Boyz, Nobs and a AOBR set off Ebay. My total now is 70 Boyz, 15 Nobs, 3 Warboss, 9 Koptas (some of which I may sell on Ebay to get more variety)
Most of the good points have already been said, but I'll throw in a few more pointers, mostly regarding list composition:
1. You need bosspoles
Bosspoles are invaluable for making sure that your boyz stay in the fight as long as possible. It's dirt cheap and statistically raises your leadership by 2.
2. Always give warbosses cybork bodies when you use them.
Pretty self explanatory, although I'm not so sure if a warboss is the best HQ for this list. A big mek with a Kustom Force Field would have probably proven more useful, especially when you weren't able to hide behind cover.
3. ALWAYS get the assault whenever possible.
Orks lose a lot of their close combat advantage when their opponents get the assault. A good way to avoid this is to have a faster unit tie the enemy up in close combat (deffkoptas, warbikes, trukkboyz and such) buying the rest of your boyz the time they need to make it across the field. If you find that the enemy gets the assault a lot, you might want to consider using shoota boyz in the large 20-30 boy mobz. With them, they don't have to get the assault to be effective, since they can shoot the enemy before they reach them.
4. Outflank with the deffkoptas
I have to disagree with some other opinions. There's no way a supercharged deffkopta would have gotten into close combat with the devastators. It'd just move up and get blown away. Granted, that might have been a nice distraction, but you need a more effective unit, like warbikes or lootas if you really want to put pressure on the enemy. I always outflank with koptas and have them go after vulnerable units and back armor. They're too vulnerable to last otherwise.
In any case, good luck!
"Any job worth doing, is worth doing with a powerklaw."
Oh sorry about that! I thought I already made that post. I don't mean to pick at details and make too big a deal of it. His composition was still defeatable, and you still learned from the game.. but more importantly, its all here-say, as you don't know exactly what his list was.
Also, I might have been mistaken in my claim, as I've looked through the codex once again and figured a way to include what you say he had.
Anyways, this is my initial thought:
If you were using the force organization chart, he would be required one HQ and two Troop choices.
+If he selected two five-man squads for his Troop choices, they cannot select special or heavy weapons. If he selected a single ten-man squad, he could take the plasma cannon and flamer and split them into two five-man combat squads - but they still only occupy one slot on the force organization chart.
+Also, I'm assuming he had one squad of Devastators (Heavy support choice that can have up to 4 heavy weapons), as it sounds as though he had more than one Heavy Bolter
+If you were following the force organization chart, his list c illegal. If you weren't following it, his list was legal.
Bur, this is all assuming what you have posted is his full list, and I suspect you're missing some of his units. This is plausible 500 point list that includes everything you say he had, and follows the force organization chart.
10 Tactical Marines
+Flamer, Plasma Cannon
+Divided into combat teams
5 Tactical Marines
+3x Heavy Bolters
500 Points Exactly
So.. essentially, its pointless to speculate, but what you have posted as his list would not be legal.. which is assuming that you've posted his entire list, and have done so accurately. Either way, I'd say its a moot point.