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I've been reading through posts and lists and it seems this flying circus is still around. I'm not opposed to it, but I'm questioning whether it should be as prevalent as it is. I'm thinking:
In fifth blasts got way better. So I would think many armies you face with multiple blasts, any ordnance and certainly plasma cannons, you just couldn't use veil with.
It's 60 points, on a lord that's not THAT good, put him with Immortals and you've got little low ap shots, half the armies out there have a 3+ and you won't statiscally kill that many. You are extramely vulnerable to counter charging.
I'm not saying it's worthless, jut that I can really mainly see it's use in tandem with a Monolith, for added mobility, some objective grabbing with warriors, and occasionally used offensively.
I'd like input though, I don't want to be missing out on something that's really good.
The ability for Necron players to pull our own units out of combat has always been invaluable and probably outweighs the prevalence of template weapons.
And over there we have the labyrinth guards.
One always lies, one always tells the truth, and one stabs people who ask tricky questions.
Fer starters, we're not allowed to post points costs of units/wargear.
As for the Veil and flying circus. It's not always necessary to have but more often than not there will come a time it could be useful. I field one in most of my games just for the mobility it provides. I've had many games where I would have lost without. On the other hand I've had some games were bad VoD placement and crummy luck with dice has lost it for me.
Overall most armies don't have a template weapon that we really have to worry about. IG, Marines (chaos and imperial) and eldar, granted these are some of the most common foes, are the only ones with seriously threatening template weapons, Immortals can tough through a lot, especially with a res-orb.
CBrate makes a strong point about the ability to warp out of CC, I know i've had occasions that it's saved me, granted this is also possible with monoliths.
Flying circus is a combo of two rather nice things IMO. Immortals, superheavy infantry with a gun that will absolutely mow down enemies, but are relatively slow. And access to any reasonably open spot on the map whenever you want it, at the penalty of being left in an often precarious position. The toughness of the Immortals eliminates the need to worry about most enemies you could land in front of, and the veil gives them a wonderful amount of mobility.
It's also good to remember that just because the lord is "with the immortals" doesn't mean it can't grab another nearbye squad, the VoD rules don't directly state that the squad teleporting is joined with the lord until AFTER they land. I regularly field my Lord in the center of my formation but not within any squads, this way I can port my immortals to a nice spot further out, or also move some warriors out of charge range of something like genestealers.
It has it's uses as mentioned above but it is ONLY worth it's points if you know what you're using it for.
I've since dropped the veil from my list since 5th, for a number of reasons:
- In 5th, the veil is a lot worse at saving squads from close combat
- The new deepstrike table has made the veil less effective for a number of reasons
- I believe now that destroyers are better than the circus
- If I need to get a warrior squad to an objective, I'm better off using a monolith
I might add though, Immortal squads are incredibly resilient. The only thing you should be afraid of is a Vindicator/Leman Russ Demolisher. Against anything else, the Immortals are going to get at least a WBB against the majority of weapons fired at them.
- How did 5th ed make the veil worse at saving squads from CC?
-Didn't the deepstrike mishap table make the veil MORE effective since theres LESS of a chance of losing models if you scatter away from your intended destination?
-I don't think that realizing Destroyers are better than Immortals has anything to do with the changes from 4th to 5th ed
- If you need to get a warrior squad to an objective, it's probably close to the end of the game... Chances are your Monolith is immobilized or destroyed by this point and I'd think that teleporting directly to the objective from behind a piece of cover would be a more reliable plan... dontcha think?
2.) Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't the mishap chart make deepstriking about 66% safer? Didn't it used to be you were automatically destroyed if you scattered into impassable/other units? Now you may be delayed or moved elsewhere but you're not out of the game.
3.) In what sense? Better attack power, more points efficient? Destroyers still suffer from small squad sizes and being prime targets, and being able to deepstrike anywhere on the board is certainly more maneuverable than even jetbike movement.
4.) But what if your monolith isn't near an objective? Neither the lith or the lord can be completely reliable for last minute objective grabs, but the lith/warriors only have a 24'' effective range, the lord and warriors can go anywhere.
Hasn't changed at all from 4th to 5th- In 5th, the veil is a lot worse at saving squads from close combatDepending how you and your opponent read the rules, it can either throw them in reserve, work perfectly, or scatter them. It's easier now to get them into tight spots than before since they dont always scatter.- The new deepstrike table has made the veil less effective for a number of reasonsThey've always been better than the circus in most situations, but the destroyers can't always easily get in behind the enemy gunline and wreck havok like the circus can, they both have their points.- I believe now that destroyers are better than the circusBy the time you're worrying about teleporting a squad to an objective, it's usualy to late for a monolith to get them there, as it usualy gets immobilized on turn 3 or 4. The veil can throw a unit in to contest an objective in 1 turn, while a monolith at that point in the game usualy takes 2, teleporting the unit then that unit running to the objective.- If I need to get a warrior squad to an objective, I'm better off using a monolith
That said, I usualy use the VoD to get my immortals behind the enemy lines, then teleport the lord back to my warriors (as I usualy take the VoD/Orb) the immortals then draw most of the fire to get them out of there and let the rest of my stuff to get in place for the kill.
Yes, I did deep-strike your sister...
Necrons : W-8 D-3 L-7 (Sleeping in their TombFoam, waiting for a new codex)
Chaos Forces (CSM/CD): W-42 D-19 L-28
Apocalypse Games : W-4 D-0 L-1 (4 Titans, Brass Scorp, 3 Baneblades, 2 Bombers, 3 Fighters, and a Partrage in a Pear Tree)
I would have to agree that if anything the Veil has almost GAINED effectiveness. With how easy it is for a Necron unit to get swept in 5th pulling them out of combat with something like Genestealers is incredibly helpful. I mean sure that's assuming they survive the first wave but it's still more useful to a Necron player than not. You only need to save like 4 warriors for it to have made it's points back. To me it and the Flying Circus are incredibly good against a mostly CC army, which almost every army can do quite effectively (with a few notable and glaring exceptions in Necrons, Tau, and most Eldar). It's an excellent tool for getting out of that situation that no Necron player wants to be in.