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Ok so I had a little problem and now I have a major solution. i wanted to run this by you guys to see if there is any problem with this.
xxxxx L xxxxx
L= Lord with res orb
Unit on the right was assulted by termies and took 7 wounds, regular wounds that can be WBB. I put the warriors down from right to left. Took the leadership test, failed then I took the inititive test and failed again. I was told by our in house ref that the whole squad on the right was wiped out by the sweeping advance, I didn't disagree with him till I read my codex and main rule book later that night. Now i think other wise. I cant quote the Codex but something like the warriors that go down and are still subject to WBB do not count for normal game purposes are debris only. The main book says about the sweep that the retreating unit is caught and destroyed and removed from play immediatly(sp). The way I read this is that the 7 warriors that were killed by the assult still get WBB is this the case or am I reading way to far into the rules?
Thanks gals and guys.
Was there another warrior wihtin 6" of your fallen? Or a Tomb Spyder within 12" and warriors somewhere else? Remember that just because it says your models could get a WBB doesn't mean they ignore the eligibility rules.
As long as the lord wasn't swept it would be eligible for WBB however.
Edit: Canew makes a valid point, Terminators can't SA (unless they changed that?) so your squad should have still been standing either way.
There's no specific rule regarding Sweeping Advance and its effect on WBB. It remains one of the more hotly contested questions with regard the rule. That said, there's a slight majority consensus that because the SA rule says "remove the unit from the table" (paraphrasing), rather than simply kill or wound, it prevents WBB. Further, ever since the Necron 4th Ed FAQ came out and emphasized that downed Necrons are largely treated as part of the unit they came from (in terms of moving while down, etc), and that the 5th Ed FAQ continued this, it means the whole unit will die to WBB, not just those models killed as a result of SA. (Previously, the argument was that models killed by combat would still get to WBB if all other conditions were met.)
That said, yes, the people at your house were wrong because Termies can't SA. You'd simply run, and they'd pursue.
*blush* the unit was a death squad not termies, sorry.
While I'm not a necron player, the way I've generally seen it run is that any units killed prior to the sweeping advance are allowed a WBB roll (assuming they were eligible in the first place) and just join the nearest unit as per the normal rules. The unit they were part of may be gone, but as you said they're already "dead" at that point anyway, and as written if they pass their WBB they'd just join the nearest unit.
As for the remainder of the squad that suffered the sweeping advance, it seems to be a rather murky rules point but I would figure that they would not recieve a WBB roll as the Sweeping Advance rules say that they're just removed from play. If a sweeping advance can cut down models with 2+ armor saves, invuln saves, and feel no pain, I think you can assume the necrons running away are so thoroughly destroyed they wouldn't benefit from WBB. Personally I might be willing to house rule it with an opponent that they could get a WBB if a res orb was around, but otherwise it seems pretty clear by RAW that they wouldn't.
So I am not reading into this really far, just joining a fight for the harvest. The codex stating the first "dead" crons are treated like debris is pretty clear to me i guess. Now for the retreating crons if they get caught oh well they are done for but those first ones are still good to WBB (if they are eligible in the first place) it's not like you can "kill" the same unit twice. OH that brings up another point. The unit assulting can only strike once, how is that said unit run towards the enemy kill the retreating ones then come back to kill the other "dead ones" that makes no sense.
To anybodys knowledge has GW been contacted regarding this matter?
rep to all of you!
There is nothing wrong with your line of reasoning. The idea that the downed models in CC are not to be considered part of the unit that gets hit by the SA is the original interpretation of the codex, largely because of the lines about how the models will join the closest unit when they get up. That said, in order to make other parts of the game less complex, during 4th Ed, GW released an official FAQ on the Necrons that included changes to the rules, such as that downed Necrons continue to move and flee with the unit until they have the opportunity to make their WBB rolls. These rulings persist in the 5th Ed FAQ as well.
This has changed the mentality of many tourney judges (which is about as official an answer as you're going to get - calling GW will invariably result in two different answers for two different calls) changing their view to that of downed Necrons being part of the unit they were originally with. Sweeping Advance, unfortunately, removes an entire unit at once, meaning the downed Necrons get removed as well.
Play it as you and your house like though - it's a very grey area. As I said, your original interpretation of the codex is correct; the idea that the whole unit gets removed is an evolution of the rules over time, to simplify other aspects of the game.
This kind of awful ambiguity is the leading argument as to why, when Necrons finally get a Codex update, they'll be getting FNP instead of WBB. (Well, that, and the fact that GW likes USRs instead of codex specific rules these days)
I normally have the Necrons that die before a sweeping advance get their WBB rolls, both when I am playing Necrons and when I am against them. As mentioned above a couple times, they died before the SA happened, so they shouldn't factor into it.
I think this one will totally depend on your group and how you wish to interpret/use the FAQ/Judge rulings. If you strictly follow both, the ENTIRE unit is taken away by sweeping advance. This is also supported in the fact that they can get another save by being teleported through the 'Lith. Since the 'Lith teleports the unit, for this instance at least, they have to be treated as part of the unit or they could not go through with the rest of the unit. This sets a pretty solid precedent that they still count as part of the unit for things that affect the whole unit. Thus since that's what SA does they would be removed just like the rest of them.
In summary the 'Lith teleport rules set up a precedent for the downed 'crons continuing to be treated as part of the unit for certain things. Thus it can be used to argue that SA removes even the downed Necrons.
P.S. Did I spell Teleport right? My spell check isn't recognizing it.