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In this post i want people to propose rule changes for the next ork codex, i waited 9 years for the current codex and there is stuff in it that were crap in the 1999 released 3ed codex that are still crap. One thing in particular is real annoyed me was the big chopper. I therefore propose the following rule that i hope Phil Kelly will get word of:
Big Chopper: +1 strength and Rending
Please tell me what you think and also post any other crap rules you think should be changed, but please be realistic and don't come up with broken rules that would never be considered by the games workshop staff
(were are my Super-Runts)
I personally believe that the +2 strength is a bit better than an extra bit of penatration vs vehicles (PKs, lootas, and tankbustas to name a few do this a lot better than rending would) and an auto-wound on a roll of a six.
Maybe GW could clarify a few bits here and there and make stikk bombs free but other than that I have no real complaints with the codex.
What are the other things you think are crap? Its nearly 4am over here and its quite possible that I forgot one of those stupid/useless rules.
Rule Number One of Engineering: Don't fix what ain't broken.
The fact that this rule is so often ignored or overlooked could lend some insight as to why we don't yet live in a perfect world, despite the claims that a civilized world is a better world.
On the other hand, I'd love it if my Ork Boyz could have Banshee Masks... mmm.. I 10..
Really though, the only thing 'broken' within our Codex is Flash Gitz. Perhaps if some small change were made to them (who knows what) they'd actually be used. As it stands - I've never seen a list that utilizes them. Otherwise, everything within Codex: Orks - A to Z - is perfectly fine as is.
Yeah, Flash Gitz are the only unit in the codex that I consider 'useless'. Everything else has their uses.
Big choppas aren't great, but giving them rending would be too powerful. You'd need to increase their cost to 10 points for that, and a powerklaw would still be better. It's true, the orks don't have normal power weapons, but I feel that fits their fluff.
The Orks are already a very powerful army, and honestly, they don't really need any more boosts. I'd only adjust a few units and options, to make them more useful:
1. Make Flash Gitz 'elite' choices, and Lootas 'heavy' choices. It really makes more sense.
2. For the same cost, start the Flash Gitz with the +1 shot and +1 strength upgrade. Also give them the option to include a nob in the unit, with the standard Nob options.
3. Make big choppas a free option for nobz.
4. Make stikkbombs cheaper, perhaps as a flat cost for the unit (+10 points to equip the unit with stikkbombs, or something to that effect).
5. Give tankbustas either +1 to penetrate armor with their rokkits, or +1 to the vehicle damage result.
6. Make Mad Doc Grotznik immune to instant death.
7. Give Zagstrukk a major overhall. Either allow his attacks to count as powerklaws during every round of combat (but at initiative 1 for every round besides the round he assaults), or allow the scatter dice for the deep strike to be re-rolled, or better yet, do both.
8. Give Deff Dreads 2 big shootas at no cost, and decrease each of the other weapon options by 5 points each.
9. Give weirdboyz the 'warp ead' upgrade at no additional cost.
10. Make big meks with Shokk Attakk Gunz 'heavy' choices instead of HQs.
11. Increase the cost of shoota boyz to 7 points.
Yeah, I bet no one wants to hear that last thought, but honestly, it'd be more fair. ^_^
A wishlist for a new codex already?!
Come on now guys! Our new codex has made us one of the most powerful armies in the game! Just think about all the poor Dark Eldar, Necron, and =I= players out there... While we basque in the glory of 6 pt boyz, d3 shot autocannon toting lootas, a spiffy new T5 warboss, and biker nobz, those poor gits are stuck using man thong clad wytches, terminator rejects, and more metal models than the blister rack at your local gameshop.
Now if GW was going to forsake them...
1) replace our crappy armor save with an invulnerable 6+ save. It fits the fluff, because orks are tough as nails and can literally have their limbs stapled back on and are fungal based.
2) I like the big choppa rending idea. It sucks that a warboss has I5 on the charge but we can't utilize it because he's packing a PK 99.99% of the time. I'd take a points increase, and rending isn't nearly as broken as it was in 4th.
3) Boarboyz. The models would sell like hotcakes. If used then allow warboss to ride a boar.
4) Squigoth- not the supersized one, but still a smaller non apocalypse game one.
5) The bionic bonce upgrade back. I miss it.
6) Make lootas heavy support and flash gitz elites. Why they changed that I don't know.
7) Make the flash gitz better. Or cost less. Say 15pts base?
My award winning Orky tale
I don't really have any changes I would like to see besides maybe somehow improving flashgitz, but do we really need a 4th viable nob squad? One thing I would like to point out since it has been mentioned a few times, while it makes more 'sense' to switch flashgitz with Lootas, this just wouldn't be nearly balanced enough. As it is Lootas are somewhat balanced because you have to choose between them and a few other elite choices. Otherwise, you could easily run multiple loota units if they were heavy and not really have to sacrifice much.
12. Allow flash Gitz to take dedicated transports, like nobz...in fact, why not just make 'flash gitz' a nob option, kind of like Meganobz? Just allow nobz to switch their weapons for snazzguns for no additional cost. If that seems unbalanced, just say the entire squad must switch out their weapons for the guns, kind of like meganobz. It would make the unit a lot more useful.
Besides the added cost and lack of a powerklaw/bosspole, one of the main problems with Flash Gitz is that they really need a transport to be effective, and that's two heavy slots taken up right there. Making them elites with dedicated transports would make them a lot more viable.
13. Allow one of the deffkoptas in each unit to be upgraded to a nob, with the option to take a bosspole. That'd make them a lot more viable during the assault, and more worth their points.
Warp 'eads just don't see enough use because Big meks and Warbosses are more necessary. Making warp 'eads cheaper would make them more viable. Another thought is to allow them to be taken as an upgrade for units of boyz, instead of a nob.
Lootas seem a lot more like heavy choices than elites. They're the Orky equivalent of a devastator squad.
Tankbustas just aren't very good at shooting vehicles. They only seem to destroy them during the assault. Another thought is to drop them to 10 points each, and make the Tankhammers/Rokkits a 5 point upgrade instead. I'd probably drop the rokkits and just rush them towards assault.
No comment on the Mad Doc? He just seems to die really quickly is all. The fact you really can't pick the unit he charges towards hurts this (charging towards the Hive Tyrant isn't exactly the best idea).
Shootas on the Deff dreads would work too. Honestly, if you could send them out there without guns for their base cost wouldn't be bad either. They're just a little too expensive, that's all. Given their BS of 2, I think their weapons should be slightly cheaper, or at least twin linked.
Shoota boyz are just 'slightly' too effective, given the cost of units in other armies. An imperial guardsman, which costs the same amount of points, has:
1 less attack
No furious charge
Rapid fire weapons
No AP penetration
Far more expensive transports (and their use is more restricted)
Far smaller units [10 models as opposed to 30]
In fact, Imperial Guardsmen only have these advantages over Orks (I'm not counting the advantages they have to pay a lot for):
Close order drill doctrine
Light Troops doctrine
Drop troops doctrine
Iron discipline doctrine
Better leadership when close to their commander
The option to buy template/blast weapons
Slightly better armor
Slightly better range when standing still
You might notice that a lot of these advantages still pale in comparison to the Ork's advantages. Close order drill and +1 init aren't as good as furious charge, their improved leadership when within command range isn't as good as fearlessness, and even though their armor is better, most guns will still penetrate it, and cover saves are better in any case. Orks have even worse armor, but they're harder to hit in close combat, which makes up for it. If you take the fact that Shoota boyz have 2 shots instead of being rapid fire, the Orks have an equivalent BS of 4 (that's the likelihood of one of the two shots hitting), and they can move and fire twice at 18 inches. If an IG troop moves it fires twice at 12 inches. Considering that the Ork guns are stronger and have better AP, this seems kind of pathetic.
The only real advantage the guardsmen have is their template/blast weapons, effective heavy weapons, their ability to infiltrate/outflank, and their ability to deep strike. Shoota boyz outperform them in virtually every other way.
If you stop and compare 20 shoota boyz to 10 Space Marines, you'll see the problem isn't just the Imperial Guard's. Shoota boy Orks beat the marines in both the assault and during the shooting phase. Template/Blast/Ordance guns are the only way the others stand a chance.
Slugga boyz aren't as bad because they're more limited in use. Shoota boyz are similar enough to troops in other armies to get math-hammer geeks (like me ^_^) in a bit of a huff. They just need to be slightly more expensive, or troops in other armies have to get cheaper.
Last edited by mynameisgrax; January 20th, 2009 at 19:44. Reason: made a mistake
Other than flash gits, what really needs fixing?
Lets go massacre something
I am a sexy shoeless god of war!
Good point, Sir Stompalot. The Orks definitely don't need any more power, overall.
The only issues I have are with a few units being TOO powerful (Lootas should be heavy choices, and shoota boyz are too cheap), a few units needing a little more flexibility (SAG's shouldn't have to be HQ choices, there should be a cheaper way to field deff dreads, and tankbustas should have a cheaper 'no rokkits' option), and two units need a complete overhall (Zagstrukk and flash gitz).
I don't think anyone can claim that Orks aren't powerful enough. With the exception of Zagstrukk and the poor Flash Gitz, I'm really just nitpicking. ^_^