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I was reading in the worst army poll and we came up more than once, and the reasoning I saw was our codex. Apparently are costs are too high for what we get and our lack of upgrades make us less competative. So I started wondering. Based upon the changes in other codex's over time relative to where we are now what are we expecting in our codex? Not what do you want, not what would be cool, but what are reasonable changes that are likely to be in our new codex? Warrior costs go down? More options for our Sybarites? Mandrakes get a Sybarite?
I think you will get a bunch of different responses but to answer basically your two questions:
As being worst - sure, I can buy that. HQ, Wyches, warriors and ravagers are really the only good choices to take. Bikes, incubi, talos are okay if you know how to use them and the rest of the codex are either really bad or you got to be an expert to make them work. Same goes for wargear - most of the stuff that no longer works in 5th weren't that good to begin with.
So as I see it, we have little options and are somwhat constricted into what we can take.
As for "reasonable changes" I hope to mimic the Fantasy Dark Elf codex which opened up the codex so we can make many different kinds of litsts. Stuff like:
Wyches being allowed to be "troops" as well as warriors if you take someone like Lelith. You can make a Khanite list (very fluffy but weak) and still use non-khanite units as a troop choice.
Mandrakes being more useful like the Dark Elf Shades - more options for them to provide different roles (shooting or assault) and also making them infiltrating and allowed to outflank. Shades got great weapon upgrades, would be nice to get something similar.
Talos being more like the Hydra - Hydra is now an awesome choice rather than a "ho-hum" fluffy choice.
Incubi could be "elites" as the Black Guard became "special" in fantasy. Now, taking a Black Guard squad is a "no-brainer" and I would love to see the Incubi as "stubborn" as well. I am not sure if GW is going to support "retinues" any longer but the incubi are too cool to be only available as a retinue (in my opinion).
I would also like to see a Raider squads be designed the same way as the Black Ark Corsairs. Give them a pirate feel to them by giving them a handweapon and a pistol. And perhaps allow them to take prisoners for additional victory points or "buffs".
I also think GW is on a "hero" kick right now and I would expect each codex unit choice to have a special character that makes the unit do something special. For example, taking the Decaptitator as a mandrake hero would allow a mandrake squad to do something like "Snikrot" and "outflank" from the opponents table edge.
I do expect to see that squad leaders (sybarites and succubi) to get less choices as well as the HQ units. HQ's will still have the most for upgrading gear but not like the freedom we got now.
And one last thought - I hope they either use or get as creative with the Web Way Portal as they did in the Apocalypse Reload book. Starting the game with the portal already open (after everyones setup) and placed by scatter dice is nice. The Big Red Book notes how the Dark Eldar open portals and can strike anywhere so being able to enter the game on turn 1 through a portal that is already opened works nicely (perhaps overpowered) but very cool.
Even the "fly-in" move in the original Apocalypse book would be nice.
Other than making the codex clear and understandable I hope the fluff will be reflected in their game play some how.
Just my opinion.
"On a hunch, I melted them down and inhaled the fumes and read the dark eldar codex again, AND FOUND A BUNCH OF NEW RULES HIDDEN BEHIND THE OTHER WORDS..." [Gardeth on modelling & interpreting the DE Codex]
I foresee a range of new units being added. Currently we have a very limited unit selection, I believe we have 14 selections or something (including HQ's) and about 4-5 of them are duplicates. As opposed to most other codeciis that have 18-20 selections without much in the way of double ups.
It is impossible to state what they will/might add other than possibly a raven or some other flier type unit considering the guard have their Valkyrie. Instead I will just go over some changes that are probable for our codex if not much were to change.
Warriors-Either 2 ccws and a rifle or a choice between a assault 2 18" rifle or a pistol and ccw combo.
Come with plasma grens.
No point change.
Probably less availability with heavy weapons. Not sure on this point though as we should be hard hitting and quick to die.
Wyches-Not sure. A clean up of rules but currently they are well priced I think.
Come with plasma grens.
Mandrakes- Champion upgrade.
Decrease in points by 2-3. (depending on champion)
Redo their infiltration rules. (I really would like to keep our current ones but I don't see it happening.)
Come with plasma grens.
Shadow skin stays, its very 5th ed.
Grotesques- cheaper 3 points
Option to be lead by a Haemonoculus.
Reavers - Cheaper, by 5 points ish
Scout (this might be a bit of a leap).
Perhaps a wych ad a warrior version.
Hellions - Cheaper, down to about 12 points each
Hellglaives are now assault, power weapon on the charge or similar.
Something to differenciate these from Reavers as currently I see one as the poorer corsin of the other.
Scourges - Cheaper, down to about 12 points each
Cheaper heavy weapons.
New assault weapon choices. A blaster or similar with perhaps a longer range.
Currently they don't really match their fluff.
Talos - no more wild fire, now just a regular weapon. TL splinter cannon?
MC, no more stupid +1S per attack rule.
Jetpack? I don't htink jumppack, but it might be. A jetpack would make it faster but not overly faster to make combat.
Ravager - More costly
comes with night shields (to "compensate")
Incubi - 3-5 points cheaper
Comes with Plasma Grens.
Same save still no FoF.
Raider - Outflank, give any unit that has one outflank.
Army wide -
Sybrites and Succubus' could conceivably have a Mark-esque thing where they choose a stat or ability for a certain amount of points (I've heard dark arts or some such bandied about a little). - might be wish listing here, however I'm undecided if I really want something like this, wouldn't throw it away if given the chance.
HQ on a JB gives JB's as troops (if they are not already).
Wych HQ gives wyches as troops.
Less options in general, however more options in the there is more that can be deemed "useable", including wargear.
Night shields will probably just turn into a night fight rule or perhaps an obscured rule, giving a 4+ save at all times or a +1/+2 to a save if you are already obscured.
Horrorfex causes a pinning test against anything, fearless or not.
Haemonoculus can be taken as an IC but also as a squad champion for grotesques where it is not a KP.
Arhra. I really do feel that i'd almost be happy with anyhting if i get a good version of this guy (I like striking scoprians, I like striking scorpians a lot)
can take incubi as troops
On the WWP:
I would not be suprised to see the WWP being deep struck and then 1/5 our force coming out of it first turn. It would be a slightly different form of a drop-pod/daemon deployment that I'm sure gw would favour as it would be unique but still a well defined and tested system. However like the WWP in apoc I do not think we would be able to assault out of it as that would just be waaay too powerful.
Dear Game Developer,Caps-Lock, its like cruise-control for AWESOMENESS!
Rock is cheese, Paper is just fine
WWP and other Dark Eldar how to
I was hoping that Incubi can be taken as an separate elite unit, like how a Space Marine Command Squad is similar to that of a Sternguard or Vanguard squad. Don't have to take it with a Archon/Dracon. Can work with Wyches in HtH.
I feel that the Talos is underpowered compared to the Eldar Wraithlord. In addition to what has been said, I think more options for the Talos would be good, like taking a dark lance/destructor/disintegrator upgrade.
More special characters? Redo the current ones to make them more up-to-date with the current edition.
Add a unit with scout and/or inflitrate? I really like the inflitrate rule. A bunch of DE stalking their prey.
I would like to see something like poison range weapons (instead of reserving them for HtH). A fixed wounding roll like sniper rifles, or better still, hellfire rounds.
Like what has been mentioned, alternative ways to deploy Dark Eldar units. More sneaky? Something that resembles Dark Eldar.
I'm not too sure about this, but what about the addition of harlequins. I know that they are in the Eldar codex, but they also perform for the DE. So they could be included right?
I think a vehicle similar to vypers would be good. Perhaps a lighter variant of a Ravager. Keep the speed, but less guns. This would be under 'Fast', since there are only 2 units under that category.
I hope that the new codex (whenever it some out) is accompanied by some really awesome models.
From the rumors I've gathered so far in several places:
Warrior's splinter rifle will likely change to Assault 2, 18", or have something gauss-like, or grant an extra CCW (spikes!). Raiders will likely have a SP, CC option.
The Raider will get 11-10-10 AV and be slightly cheaper. New model
Retinues go away, and incubi can be elites
Scourges and hellions "reworked" - while I dont have exacts on this, I'd like these units to be unique and separate choices, and better/cheaper than they are now.
However, I also expect the designers to make use of 5th editiion stuff like, the outflank rule, Hellions get Furious Charge, Grots FNP, etc... Things that were originally completely unique to DE will be slotted into a Universal rule in order to streamline the game, and cause less problems/incosistancies in the rules structure.
I hope they don't mess with the splinter rifle...
A cheaper raider would be nice thought.
A new range of units is something I really don't want...
I'm really liking the current ones and hope that warriors, raider/ravager dont change.
I expect that DE will probably lose a lot of their signature playstyle difficulty. Because when it comes right down to it, playstyle difficulty = getting less for your points. It holds true for DE. Their stuff is expensive and outclassed by anything of equal points cost from another army. That has happened slowly as the game evolved, and DE did not.
Specific changes I'd like to see:
Ahra - I've wanted to see this guy since before DE were a playable army.
Mandrakes - Get a Champion upgrade, get Infiltration, get rid of their pistol but give them 2 Attacks, (I LOVE their look in DoW) make their arm blades poisoned, offer a selection of useful upgrades to vary their function. (tank killers, heavy infantry killers, etc.) Generally make them more worth their points.
Incubi - Make them an Elite unit, not HQ retinue.
Wyches - Give them more upgrade options to specialize the unit.
Grotesques - Give them Rending. And make them more survivable in CC.
Warriors - Give them a pistol/ccw option.
Scourges - Should be able to move AND fire any weapons they are given. Perhaps give them jetpacks.
Hellions - Definitly need something to make them worth using.
Reaver Jetbikes - HnR, make them cheaper AND better.
All Splinter weapons - Should be assault weapons and poisonous. (They do fire needles of crystalized poison afterall)
Cheaper and much more powerful is what I believe the Dark Eldar are in line for. Yes, they'll probably lose their reputation of being a pro's army, but an increase in competativeness will boost sales and bring them more attention from GW. Many, many people buy armies based on how powerful they are, and GW won't release an army unless they think it will sell... They may even overcompensate for DE because GW has a retarded fixation on the idea that DE will not sell no matter what they do for them...
Okay, I'm going to make some predictions here:
• Lords will come standard with a pistol, CCW, and plasma grenades.
• Warriors Squads and Raider Squads will be joined into one unit choice, keeping the extra weapon options.
• Warriors will have the option of plasma grenades.
• Sybarites & Succubi will be able to take SS ammo for their squad at +3 points/model. SSA will also work on cannons.
• Raiders will be 35 points, with the DL being optional for +10 or the dissie for +15.
• Hellions will cost the same as Reavers, but will have assault 2 weapons and an extra attack. Their Sv will be 5+(4+).
• Mandrakes will have 2 attacks + pistols, and will use the Stealth USR and hidden deployment. 12 points/model.
• Scourges will start at 12-13 points/model. The unit will be able to take haywire grenades for +3 points/model.
• The Talos will have options to make them more representative of the Haemonculi's differing styles.
• Haemonculi will have more unique options, including psychological weapons.
• Gruesome Talismans will be the same as Instrument of Chaos. They will remain tied if the opponent has GT or IoC.
Wish List -
- Raiders get the Scout special rules.
- Warriors and Wyches get the hit and run special rules. May use these rules when mounted on bike or sky board.
- Splinter rifles and splinter pistol and close combat weapon, or at least the option to take pistol/CCW on warriors.
- Price Reduction on Wyches and Warriors, 2 points each.
- Update the Talos, complete weapons overhaul. Bright Lances, how about a heavy flamer, much better close combat abilities. Fleet to represent it being a skimmer.
- Wyches are a troop choice, or can capture objectives like sternguard.
Remember guys, this topic isn't for wishlists. It's what you actually expect to see in the new codex.
I've got another few predictions I want to add at this time:
• Reaver Jetbikes will count as a close combat weapon in addition to their current rules.
• At least one instance of each of these rules will find its way into our new codex:
+ Furious Charge
• Grotesques will use the Feel No Pain USR instead of their special rule of the same name. They might also gain the Rage USR.
Last edited by Krovin-Rezh; February 10th, 2009 at 07:11.