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Thread: Shafted in 5th?

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    Member Doomguy's Avatar
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    Shafted in 5th?

    Does any one else feel that we got shafted in 5th. Yes I know we got run witch is huge for our slower moving guys. But rending became worse and now we cant destroy vehicles with the venom cannon. Does anyone else have any input on this?


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    Back with a vengeance Tarnag's Avatar
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    We did get slightly hurt, but I don't think we were fully shafted. I think we were brought about equal to everyone else, our poor BS doesn't hurt Blast weapons as much anymore, but our already poor anti-tank got poorer. Rending got nerfed, but Feeder Tendrils are finally useful. We got stuff that helped us, and stuff that hurt us.

    I think we did get hurt, but we are still quite competetive.

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    Member russyhead's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doomguy View Post
    Does any one else feel that we got shafted in 5th. Yes I know we got run witch is huge for our slower moving guys. But rending became worse and now we cant destroy vehicles with the venom cannon. Does anyone else have any input on this?

    didn't really go with venom cannons anyway. but i'm liking the auto hitting blast templates now - and my barbed strangers have killed a few tanks with that.

    the change to rending effects every army, and i'm pretty glad about that because it means that the creatures with the nice armour saves such as carnifexs and tyrants won't be getting stripped of their wounds that way as much. and i only use genestealers in big games anyway - so i'm not so worried about them.

    i think tyranids have benefitted really. especially with hacking up tanks in the assault phase.

    the only thing is that you have to sit termagaunts on objectives and keeping them safe instead of them being fodder.

    oh and spore mines are kill points

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    Member Zarachius's Avatar
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    I'd agree we got our good lumps and our bads...

    Good:
    Feeder tendrils are worth it
    Always assaulting rear armor makes it easier to kill tanks
    Not having Victory points in almost every scenario makes Without Number great
    The absence of partials makes our blast weapons better (carrying a load of assault blasts)
    Blast weapons scatter less depending on BS, even our poor BS helps
    Big beasties like the 'fex can run
    Get an easy cover save by hiding the important guys behind the legions of fodder (think of that with a lictor...)
    Going to ground can help keep troops alive to score objectives (take that poor armor saves!)


    Bad:
    Rending got nerfed
    Venom cannon can't kill tanks
    Units of mines count as points for kill points? (I dunno if they do or not)
    Some of our points aren't worth it (the extra points a genestealer costs due to it's rending)
    Other teams/races got some nice bonuses too (don't expect it to be all about us =p)

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    Member Doomguy's Avatar
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    Well the thing that sucks is that rending was what made genstealers really good.(aside form good Initiative). But they cost the same amount of points and I don't think where high up on the list. For being redone for 5th.

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    LO Zealot magnet_man's Avatar
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    Rending was over powered in 4th ed. I played marines and used assault cannon cheese to massive effect. I like that they brought it down a notch.

    It's not 5th ed that hurts us, it's the 5th ed codices. Power creep in each new army is painful. Orks are way over powered and Marines are just ridiculous. I'm scared what awaits every army with the new IG codex. Pretty soon nids will be as effective an army has dark eldar. But at least we have a hope at a new codex sometime in the future
    Tim Wright

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    Member Doomguy's Avatar
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    Ya im hoping well be after guard. hopefully GW wont do 3 imperial armies in a row.

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    Member Tdogloftin's Avatar
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    The whole not needing to hit with the blasts really helps the tyranids. And about the rending rule, how does rending work vs vehicles? do we get 2d6 for penetrating or what?
    "How ironic it is that as fast as we spread progress and hope throughout the galaxy, the Tyranids spread death and despair."
    - Aun'shi of the Tau

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    Member MattyMorgs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tdogloftin View Post
    And about the rending rule, how does rending work vs vehicles? do we get 2d6 for penetrating or what?
    I wish! Sadly that's reserved for Monstrous Creatures. But, with a rend, you add another d3 which makes Genestealers effective against Walkers as you always hit front armor on those mean suckers. Then there's monoliths with their living metal armor...
    Human beings, while exceptional in the ability to learn from the mistakes of others, are also remarkable for their apparent disinclination to...

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    Senior Member Xilconic's Avatar
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    Aren't we forgetting some details?
    Pro:
    Tailweapons can actually be helpfull now when a carnifex charges.
    CC oriented fexes are more viable now, because of the above and because of running.
    Our nids cannot be instakilled any more by Force Weapons. (which was debated in 4th edition, but is now true against all armies in 5th ed, although with the exceotion for Grey Knigts...)
    We can now have effective meatshield screens again, who give cover saves.
    Abusing the cover rule, we are even able to make this meatshield screen give cover to itself, by using gaunt wrapping.
    That when deedstriking your lictor or gargoyles or Raveners, and they scatter in an enemy units, they aren't automatically destroyed, but they might as well be just delayed 1 round.

    Con:
    Nidzilla armies got toned down, because of emphasis on Troops to win a match.
    Losing a CC combat could potentially cost a lot of extra models, because of synapse.

    Sure, the nerf to rending has hit us hard, but you can give those genestealers feedertendrils for a minor investation, and they will propably hit almost every attack, and thus be almost the same with the 4th edition rending, only that they just hit more attacks. This results in almost the same amount of rending hits (lightly less rending hits), and much more normal hits. Thus, they do more damage!
    Only the Raveners and warriors got really hurt by the rend nerf actually. Genestealers and Lictors didn't lose to much to the rend nerf when equiped with feedertendrils.
    And a Broodlord with Toxin Sacs and Feeder Tendrils can all of a sudden deal 6+1d6+1d3 (average on 11.5, which almost always hits against rear armor) armor penetration rolls! Instead of the 6+1d6 or 12+1d6 when the first d6 rolled a 6. (which averages to about 10.5, which could be against front, or side armor, and maybe read armor)

    I don't think we are hit that hard at all... Just need to change tactics a little bit, change your army composition a bit, maybe do some greenstuff work on the genestealers, and then your off to go eat things again.
    Tyranids Win [31]/ Draw [0]/Lost [0]
    Daemon Hunters Win [17]/ Draw [2]/ Lost [1]
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