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I'm not a Necron player, but I have a few friends that all started playing 40k and were all pretty noobish. 2 of my friends are playing Necron Lords with the equipment listed in the title, Ressurection Orb and Veil of Darkness.
Now, perhaps it's just me, or maybe they're using it wrong, but this combination seems dang powerful and even a bit cheesy.
Basically, this is what this combo seems to be able to do.
1. Veil of Darkness lets you teleport your whole army anywhere on the board, making them really tough to catch. We played a 1500pt vs 1500pt team game last night and the Necron lord would teleport one unit, then move away from his squad, then teleport to the other unit, then teleport that one away.
I'm not sure how many turns it would take to do all of that. Could they teleport, then seperate the Lord..then teleport again next turn? (Basically...can they teleport every turn).
Of course, there is the downside of Deeptriking tragedies, but either hit the spot or drifted a little, but they never encountered hindering or dangerous terrain. And of course they can teleport out of close combat...so it seems there is no downside.
2. Orb of Ressurection. Basically this means that, even if I assault or completely eliminate one squad of Necron w/ the Necron Lord, they can all come back via the "We'll be back rule". IF the Necron Lord is dead, the Orb still rezzes him (according my friends) and now they have a Necron within 6" which allows him to roll "we'll be back"
So yeah, I'm playing Ork...were playing 500 pts forces point cost annihiliation. Do I have anything to be worried about, or will this not be as bad as I think it will?
First, as to the Veil.
Yes, it can be used every turn, on any unit within 6" of the Lord. However, current 5th Ed Deepstrike rules override certain aspects, and it sounds like he might have been using it wrong. You cannot move more than once during the movement phase - this means the Lord cannot grab a unit, teleport, and then on the next turn, walk out of a unit and then grab another one, then teleport again. Nor can the unit he's targeting move first.
Basically, you can always teleport once per turn with the Lord and any unit within 6" of him. However, you cannot move either unit before doing so. The Deepstrike rules are specific on this. This is a shift from the wording in 4th and 3rd Eds, when you could move prior to the Veil being used. As such, they might simply be confused on the issue.
But yes, aside from that, they seemed to be using it correctly. Remember, the Lord automatically joins any unit he teleports with. The downside to it is that it's an expensive of wargear that limits what else you can actually take. (Necron Lords can only have 100 points of Wargear total, not including the Warscythe upgrade.) That said, the Veil is probably the most powerful piece of wargear available to them.
As for the Res Orb, it sounds as though they might have been using it wrong, but I'd have to have seen it to tell. To understand the Res Orb, you need to understand WBB.
WBB allows for any Necron who was not killed by an instant death attack (S8 for the Warriors, for example), or a close combat attack that prevents armor saves, such as a power weapon, to get an attempt to repair themselves at the start of their next turn. This is provided they have the exact same model within 6" of the model trying to WBB. (It's not unit to unit, it's model to model.) The Lord has a specific exception to the 6" rule, regardless of the Res Orb. (He doesn't have to have the same model.)
All the Res Orb does is override the Instant death and power weapon rule. It cannot override the 6" rule. The Res Orb is a unit-to-unit mod, unlike the WBB itself, but provided there's one within 6" of the unit in question, instant death or armor-ignoring close combat hits won't auto-kill Necrons like normal. That's it. (They still have to make their rolls, of course - if they fail the rolls, the model is just plain gone. Nothing "auto-res" about it.)
As to how the Res Orb works when the Lord is dead - the current Necron FAQ, as published by GW, implies in several rulings that you check for WBB conditions at the time the model dies. What this means is that for every model that dies prior to the Lord, they will get Res Orb benefits for the next turn's roll. For every model that dies after the Lord, they will not.
Finally, as far as the 500 point annihilation game goes - you shouldn't worry too much. With compulsory choices, a Necron Lord + Res Orb, and two squads of 10 warriors (the absolute minimum you can take) is an even 500 points exactly. He can't fit the Veil in there. 460 points are taken in mandatory choices, he's got a total of 40 points to work with.
Or, another way to put this - Necrons SUCK in 500 point games.
Fortunetly for you necrons are extremly hindered in low point games just because they essentially have a choice between taking a res orb or one wraith(if you allow him to go a point over) or two extra crons.
Clearly the orb is the best choice. This means he will have a very slow force without anything stronger than a bolter. So if you a playinhg orks a 30 ork squad with powerklaw nob should put some seirous hurt on him.
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Won't be bad at all, if he keeps porting out, he'll never get shots off. In order to use the veil and warriors he'd have to land within 12" to shoot, else he can never fire and you'll eventually wear him down. As for the res orb...if you wipe all like models, it doesn't matter if there's an orb...
"There is only do, or do not. There is no try." - Yoda
I think I'm starting to understand this, but there are a few things I'm not sure about.
First, doesn't the Necron Lord get +100 pts of Free upgrade stuff from the Armoury? I may have read that wrong, I thought the Veil of Darkess was a 60 pt upgrade and the Orb was 40 pts that were included for Free with the 100 pt Lord. If I'm not correct, then at least I don't have to worry about him Tp'in all over the board.
The only other thing that I think they did wrong was seperating the Lord after the unit Tp'ed. Can he do this in the same turn, or does he have to wait until the next turn.
(ie. Say you have a Necron Lord w/ a Veil and 2x Squads of 10 Warriors). 1st turn you can Port 1 Squad within 6" (not both, right?). Second turn, you would have to use your move to TP, right? (you can seperate then port). So by third, you would port just your Lord to the other squad, then you have to wait for the 4th Turn to Port them.
Now for the Orb,
In most cases, I'm guessing the Warriors would die before the Lord, unless you have enough Boyz in contact w/ the Lord to kill him first. But just in case...where does it explain in the Necron book that only warriors that died BEFORE the Lord get raised with his Orb?
Also, let's say my Squad of Boyz annihilates a whole unit of Warriors including the Lord. I believe my friends read that the Orb can work even if the Lord is dead. So that means the Lord would get a WBB check at the beginning of his turn even if he died (and the rest of his unit too) because of the Orb. If he succeeds, he can then apply a WBB check to the rest of his Unit, potentially reviving his whole squad.
(because from what my friends told me last night, I could annihilate a squad, the Lord could succesfully WBB himself because of the Orb, then the rest of his squad could WBB..and then he could port all over the place!
Is this NOT the case? If so, can someone show me where it explains that this doesn't work?
Lastly, I would like to ask...do Necrons have rapid fire weapons? If they do, then I believe they get 1 shot at 24" right?
IF that's true, and they chose to get a Veil of Darkness, then all he would have to do is stay outside of 24" of the Ork boyz squad and shoot them up. Even if he only killed 1 Boy model the whole game and I couldn't get within range to shoot or assault and kill one Necron warrior, he would win because I guess were using the older system of scoring individual model pts. instead of just saying you get 1 victory point for each unit killed.
Last edited by Darkzephyr; January 25th, 2009 at 00:23.
Lord work as being a 100 pt model and you get to buy 100 pts worth of wargear (nothing is free)
As stated in the FAQ (check those before asking questions) Orb only works on other necrons while the lord is alive so if the lord is fallen, orb isn't in effect.
Also the orb is checked at time of death, not when you go to roll WBB. So NEcronss that fall after the lord died and wouldn't get WBB won't get WBB, even if the Lord does get back up on his WBB roll
Please read the rules for rapid fire, you only get the single long range shot if you don't move, deep striking counts as moving
Last edited by CrownAxe; January 25th, 2009 at 00:50.
I'll do my best to help with this.
The Lord doesn't get any free upgrades. The wargear options he may take actually cost points, he's just limited to only being able to take 100 points worth of wargear at a time. (This was common in older codeci, such as the Necron one.) You're correct in how you read the wargear, it just makes it a 200 point model.
As far as the Veil goes, as I said, the Lord cannot move before or after he teleports. (Except for running, of course.) *BUT* The Veil can target any unit within 6" of him, and he will join THAT unit when he teleports them. So, it is possible for him to switch squads once a turn with the Veil. It can only teleport one squad a turn, but he's not required to move away from the squad he joined to target another unit with the Veil.
Ok, now for the Orb:
Nowhere in the Codex does it say that the death order affects how the Orb works. That was left fairly vauge until this edition, when GW put out their 5th Ed FAQ, which implies in several rulings about the order of WBB checks. This ruling specifically addresses the issue:The FAQ is considered an official series of rulings that are an expansion to the Codex. It can be found here: http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_...th_Edition.pdfQ. When is the range of the resurrection orb
checked? At the time the Necron becomes
damaged or at the start of the turn when WBB is
A. Check range when a Necron becomes
damaged. If at least one (undamaged) model in
the unit is within 6" of a resurrection orb at that
point, leave the damaged Necron on the board.
Otherwise, immediately remove it from the table
as a casualty.
So, the Orb only works as long as the Lord is alive, but those warrirors who died before him will still get its effects.
With regard to WBB, all rolls are considered simultaenous. They all happen "at the beginning of the turn" - the Lord doesn't go before the warriors, nor the warriors before the Lord. It's all simultaneous.
Now, with one final note - Sweeping Advance. The Res Orb has no effect on models killed in sweeping advance - they're "removed from play" not killed. There's no way around it. There's some dispute as to whether or not this includes the models killed in the combat prior to the SA. I have no good answer to it, arguments to both effects make sense. There is no dispute, however, that any living models caught in a sweeping advance are killed with NO WBB.
Remember, unless you see a Tomb Spider, the 6" model rule ALWAYS applies. That means if you kill the warrior unit and there's no other warriors within 6", they don't get WBBs, Res Orb or no. That's why they're usually kept together.
To your last question; the Veil is considered a Deep Strike. Deep Strike is considered moving. This means the rapid fire weapons will only have a range of 12", from where they'll get two shots. To get the full range of a rapid fire weapon, you cannot move the unit that turn. So, he can't do that with warriors. (In a larger game, one of the most popular combos with a Veil Lord is Immortals - tougher warriors with better guns and longer range on them. That is a highly dangerous combo you need to watch for. But with only warriors, its not so much a threat.)