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Just wondering, does anyone actually use mandrakes in 5th, or have they joined scourge on a dusty shelf somewhere. I cant see much use for them, they cant even capture objectives anymore, but if any1 does use them please tell how
Of course mandrakes are still useful. for example you can conceal them and sneak up to a lone enemy commander and mob him. also decapitator can still do a lot of damage.
Mandrakes are definetiley worth keeping. They are quite cheap as well.
I pretty much agree with Busterw.
The hidden deployment rule can prove really useful in stopping enemy advance or ganging up on an enemy squad. In my 1500 point army I'm definately going for Mandrakes instead of wyches.
Mandrakes serve their purpose, but they by no means replace wyches.
(WH40K) Dark Eldar - (12,000pts) Sisters of Battle - (5000pts) Dark Angels -(3500pts) (WHFB) Dark Elves - (10,000pts) Beastmen - (5000pts) Empire - (3000pts) Wood Elves - (1500pts)
Here's a really clear example of why Mandrakes are important, almost necessary, in 5th Edition:
2/3 of the games use objectives. In those games, place the markers in 4+ area terrain where you can (there's a lot of it around usually). Hide your Mandrakes near the objectives. On the third turn, have them pop up to contest one of the objectives your opponent is holding and charge 'em into CC. The Mandrakes will get 2+ cover saves even in the assault, and they will usually strike first as well. Nothing can beat 10 Mandrakes in CC because they normally get 20 attacks (30 on the charge), and they can just use cover to block any wounds.
Effectively, you've just denied your opponent 1 scoring unit and 1 objective for the rest of the game. It's now a lot easier to attempt capturing the remaining objectives. That's amazing when you consider it's a dependable strategy for only 150 points cost.
The Shadow-skinned rule never says mandrakes get a cover save in CC, it just says they count as being in cover in CC. It pretty clearly explains the implication is that opponents need frag grenades to assault at initiative against mandrakes, not that mandrakes effectively get a 2+ invuln save in CC for 15pts a model.
I suggest you read the rule again Deris. It clearly states that Mandrakes always count as being in cover, giving them the cover save of 5+ even in the open or during assaults. It's not always 5+ though, because they can also use any cover on the battlefield with a +2 bonus.
The wording is: "Mandrakes always count as being in cover, giving them a 5+ cover save. This counts in an assault as well, so unless the attackers are armed with frag grenades the Mandrakes will always strike first." It's not saying the cover save applies in combat, it says they still count as being in cover even in assault. And nothing in the language there exempts them from the normal limitations on when you can take a cover save, it just says they count as being in cover even in assault and proceeds to explain the in game consequences for opponents attempting to assault them.
If your group allows you to play your mandrakes with a 2+ cover save in CC then more power to you, but I don't know any one who would allow it. Does anyone have any experience with this in a tournament setting?
By the 5th Edition rulebook, a model in cover gets a cover save. For Mandrakes, that cover is 5+ in the open a +2 bonus to any normal cover saves from terrain.
The lines you quoted says they get the 5+ cover save, and that counts in an assault as well. I don't know what the problem is here?
So what you're saying is that if a squad of mandrakes assaults a unit in the open they will get the usual 5+ cover save, but if they assault into cover they get a 2+ ?