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Thread: Tyranid trouble

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    Tyranid trouble

    Last Monday I faced off vs the Tyranid player of our little group of 500pt friendly tourney game.

    This is what I had for my 500pts.

    HQ

    Big Mek KFF 85 pt.

    Troops
    20x Shoota Boyz w/ 2 Big Shootas, Nob Big Choppa 145
    12x Boyz, Nob PK Trukk 142
    15x Boyz Nob Pk 125

    497 pts.


    His army
    Hive tyrant: Scyth Talons and Extended Carapace

    3x Warriors: Deathspitters (small template weapons)

    8x Genestealers: Feeder tendrils (favored enemy)

    8xGaunts: Spinefists (terrible twin linked weapon)

    Carnifex: 2x Twin Linked Death spitters (reroll to hit and wound str 6 assault weapons)

    Not sure exactly how many points that is, but I imagine it's 500 pts or less

    This is basically how our armies were laid out

    gggg---WWWtt-------H--GGGGG
    gggg---tttttttttt----C


    -------- TTTT---------- tt
    ----------TTT

    -----------------------tttttttttttt
    ----------------------------------
    -------bNbbBM--TB--SSNSSSSS

    T=Blocking Terrain
    t=Terrain
    G=Genestealers
    g=Gaunts
    W=Warriors
    C=Carnifex
    H=Hive Tryant
    S=Shoota Boyz
    BM=Big Mek
    b=Boyz
    N=Nob
    TB=TrukkBoyz

    The Tyranid won first turn, but gave it to Ork.

    1st Turn

    I moved 12" with my Trukk, ran with my Slugga Boyz and entered Difficult terrain with my Shootas and shot at something (I believe I shot at the Warriors in terrain) but failed to deal any wounds.

    The Carnifex shot at the Trukk, but I made all of my saves and didn't suffer any damage.
    The Warriors tried to blast my Slugga Boyz but only killed 1 out of the 15 Boyz I had. Also, since most of my boyz were blocked from the Warriors LOS, he had to hit on the corners of the squad which didn't give him much opportunity to cover a lot of boyz.

    2nd Turn

    The Trukk Boyz pull up and unload near the Carnifex. I decided to declare my Waauugh, but the only unit that may have benefited from it (the Slugga Boyz) rolled a 3 and were just out of range to assault the Warriors.

    During the Assault phase I was closest to the Carnifex. I figured I should probably assault him, but I could also potentially assault the Warriors or Hive Tyrant, though I wasn't sure if I could get everyone into CC. The Boyz managed to slay the Carnifex without much trouble and consolidated 3" to the Right to make room for the incoming 15x Boyz.

    During the Tyranid assault phase, the Gaunts assaulted my 15x Boyz but only managed to kill 1 and the Orks utterly annhilated the Gaunts. The Trukk Boyz finished off the Carnifex, but being charged by the Genestealers made them get hurt pretty bad.

    3rd Turn-5th turn
    Long story short. I manged to wipe out half of his Genestealers and get his Hive Tyrant down to 1 wound with about 8x Boyz and a Nob in CC, and about 15x Shoota boyz + Nob closing in.

    Somehow, the Hive Tryant managed to save every wound from that point onward (when the Tyranid player suddenly realized he had extended Carapace and was able to make every 2+ Save. It was also very tough to deal wounds with Toughness 6 on that Tyrant!!

    At the end of turn 5 all I had was a Trukk and he had the Tyrant with 1 wound and the 3 Deathspitting Warriors.

    So, I have 2 big questions.

    1. Should I have done anything differently? Perhaps assault the Tyrant first? Also, I think I should try to kill Warriors as soon as possible in the future. They have some upgrade that keeps the other Tyranids within 12" from doing something random or not being able to do anything.

    2. Should I have had a different army formation? I tried to build an Army that could face a variety of threats including SM, Necron, Tryanid and Eldar. I also wonder if I shoulda made had 20x slugga Boyz and 15x Shootas and maybe removed some models or upgrades for another PowerKlaw.

    My alternative Army would've looked like this

    Big Mek KFF 85pt

    20x Shoota Boyz Nob PK 2xBig shootas 165
    20x Slugga Boyz Nob PK BP 160

    6x Lootas 90pt

    Lastly, but most importantly, I will be able to come up with a new list at our 750pt Level. I would really like to take Kommandos. possibley Boss Snikrot..especially since most of the players like to hang out near their table edge and wait for me to come to them.

    Keep in mind, there will be a variety of threats, more than likely they will include

    Eldar, with FarSeer, Warlocks, Prince Yriel....
    Tyranid with Tryant and Carnifex
    Necron w/ Res Orb..and possibley Veil of Darkness.
    Marines with....whatever nastiness Marines can bring at 750...probably most of it will be AOBR stuff + some Tanks.

    This is an Army I'm devising.

    HQ Big Mek 85 pts.

    20x Shoota Boyz Nob PK BP 160
    20x Slugga Boyz Nob PK BP 165

    10x Kommandos Led by SnikRot 185

    10x Lootas 150

    Last edited by Darkzephyr; February 4th, 2009 at 19:29.

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  3. #2
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    It looks like you needed more Boyz there. 30 shootas and 2 mobs of 20 sluggas would have caused no end of problems for the buggies, Lootas are handy too.

    I'd avoid Snikrot at such low point levels, he's a nice threat but super expensive. I'd rock 60+ boyz and some Trukks to get stuck in sooner.
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    LO Zealot mynameisgrax's Avatar
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    Gang up

    The main mistake you made was taking on everything at once. The only thing the Orks have that can really do damage to monstrous creatures are powerklaws. I would have tried to gang up on either the Tyrant or Carnifex with most of the army. Tyranids are also great at counter-assault, so you might have done better if you hung the sluggas back and shot at the gaunts/genestealers for a while, letting the big monsters come to you, so you could gang up on them better.

    Uh...you might want to check his points. That looks more like 600 points than 500, although I'm not the best judge (I just play against a lot of Tyranids.

    I would have used more 'shooty' units, to help you against armies like Tyranids. I also wouldn't use anything less than 20 boyz in each unit that's on foot. They just don't last long enough set up that way. Also, always give boyz powerklaws rather than big choppas, and give those untis bosspoles, especially the one in the trukk.


    Here's my normal 500 points list:


    Warboss w/powerklaw, cybork, combi-scorcha, bosspole [105]

    17 Shoota boyz w/big shoota, nob, powerklaw, bosspole [147]

    17 Shoota boyz w/big shoota, nob, powerklaw, bosspole [147]

    11 Slugga boyz w/trukk [101]


    The Shoota boyz would be better at 20, to get the extra big shoota, but then we wouldn't have enough points for everything else. I don't use a KFF at 500 points, it really isn't worth it when you're only protecting 2 units or so, and a warboss adds far more power to the list. I put him in the trukk and hold them back, with the shoota boyz making their way through cover up front.

    Against Tyranids, I wait for them to get close, shooting them up as they go. When they finally get ready to strike, I counter-assault with the trukk (with the warboss inside) and tear them to pieces, dropping the flamer template on them if they're the Genestealers. It's not a perfect strategy, but it's the way I like to play.

    In any case, good luck!
    Last edited by mynameisgrax; February 5th, 2009 at 04:56. Reason: forgot one thing
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    Quote Originally Posted by mynameisgrax View Post
    Uh...you might want to check his points. That looks more like 600 points than 500, although I'm not the best judge (I just play against a lot of Tyranids.
    Since you mentioned it.. I checked (I have most, if not all of the current codecis)

    His army came out to 473 points. Which fits, because the warriors must be armed with two weapons per, and there is only one listed. So I assume the 27 remaining points was spent on their second weapons + a few other biomorphs.

    By the way, good job Zeph.. keeping track of what your opponent had.. Makes it a lot easier for us to help you ^-^ I've nothing new to contribute though.. other than what was already said.. and.. I hate dem bugs..
    I've recently become a fan of this thing called Dubstep. And you should too.
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    Dang

    Well, I said I wasn't the best one for calculating Tyranid points. ^_^

    It just goes to show how effective Tyranids can be when run close to 'bare bones', with very few extras.

    I've played against 1000 point Tyranid lists that had about the same number of models as the army you faced, and they generally aren't very effective. Blowing 350-450 points on extras is never a good idea, especially with a horde army.

    As with Orks, the most effective thing the Tyranids can do is field more models. For this reason, always remember to bring flamers, KMBs, and shooty units to your bigger games.

    On a side note, I had a fantastic win over one of the best players at the local game store (he won the local 'ard boyz), my biker heavy speed freaks (with 2 battlewagons filled with shoota boyz) versus his Nidzilla/genestealer army.

    It was the capture and control mission, with 5 objectives. He kept his Sniperfexes back, his troops out front, and prepared for my assault.

    To his surprise, the assault never came. With all the shoota boyz, warbikes and big shootas, I stopped a little over 12 inches away from his front line, and just opened fire upon his troop units with everything I had. By the time he realized that I was just going to sit and shoot, and started moving his forces forward, I'd already crippled his genestealers and gaunts, leaving him few to no units left to control objectives with. ^_^

    So in short, picking on the troop choices is a good tactic when fighting Tyranids. The monstrous creatures can contest objectives, but they can't claim them.
    "Any job worth doing, is worth doing with a powerklaw."
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    First, Thanks ==Me==. Grax and BossGore.


    I think I need to learn some more Ork strategy besides "CHAAARRGE!!", Including the the possibility of using more Shootiness.

    My general plan around this army (in all my games)was to run the Trukk Boyz up as soon as I could and tie up a squad of Shooters while the 15x Boyz w/ PK marched up asap to engage a second squad...or help finish the combat the first 12x boyz were in.

    In the mean-time, the ShootaBoyz would come up and fire at anything within range that wasn't engaged in combat...although I think I made the mistake of always shooting first turn (or almost every turn) even if the Big Shootas were the only thing in Range.

    So, like Grax mentioned, I think my main mistake was rushin' in too soon with my TrukkBoyz when I should've perhaps waited another turn to gang up on 'em with multiple squads. In this particular case I rushed in because of his rather "Shooty" Carnifex (which got re-rolls) and his Warriors that would be layin' down 3 pie plates a turn. I think I could've gone more to the left and avoided the Tyrant and Carnifex for another turn or so (since they were a bit off to the right) and just taken on the Warriors.

    The 8x Gaunts were there too, but I literally wiped them out in 1 easy turn when he assaulted me, so I don't think they would've been a threat.

    Also, I was originally going to use my Warboss, but I think some people said he was really only good if you're taking Nobz, otherwise the Big Mek is better with his 5+ cover save. Lastly, I guess I shoulda split my squads more evenly, because even though the 12x and 15x Boyz usually made it into Combat with most of their members alive...I still didn't quite have enough to last as long as I should in combat.

    So again, what would you guys take for 750pts? I'm thinking Kommandos w/ Flamer or Lootas because my friends have a tendecy to "sit and shoot" and even do silly things like hide in Bunkers or stay up on Ramps near their Base (which can only be accessed from the rear)
    Last edited by Darkzephyr; February 6th, 2009 at 13:25.

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    LO Zealot mynameisgrax's Avatar
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    Hmm...

    It's normally true, a KFF is usually better than a warboss if you're not taking nobz, but in 500 point games there just aren't enough spare points for a unit that doesn't fight well. In 500 point games I usually use a warboss with cybork/powerklaw/bosspole, and have him stand in for a nob in one of the groups of boyz. If I have some points to spare, I'd also give him a combi-scorcha and 'eavy armor.

    As for the next 750 points: BOYZ BOYZ BOYZ!

    If you're going footslogger, that's the point a KFF would be useful, and so would more boyz. I'd still take at least one unit of trukk boyz for objective grabbing and backing up your footsloggers, perhaps a unit of grotts for sitting on objectives in your own deployment zone (or standing in front of the rest of your army), and lootas never hurt. Kommandos aren't bad, but I don't think you have the spare points for them until you reach the 1500 point level or higher. Fill up the troop slots first.

    If you're going speed freaks, I'd get at least 2 more trukks, and some of the following: battlewagons w/deffrollas (with 20 shoota boyz inside), warbikers (either regular or biker nobz), meganobz (either in a trukk or battlewagon), and/or rokkit buggies.

    Any of those things will greatly add to the power of a speed freaks list. If you're using nobz, add a warboss of the appropriate type. If you're not using nobz, then I'd use a KFF at that point level, to give the vehicles obscurement.
    "Any job worth doing, is worth doing with a powerklaw."
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    Quote Originally Posted by mynameisgrax View Post
    By the time he realized that I was just going to sit and shoot, and started moving his forces forward, I'd already crippled his genestealers and gaunts, leaving him few to no units left to control objectives with. ^_^
    Random tangent: I've found this to be an especially effective "trick". I don't suppose it'd work all the time, you don't want to build a reputation for doing it.. but it seems that players often assume Orks will be supa assaulty, and fielding a supa dakka list out of the cold blue really throws off their tactics. I've done this twice (out of my eight games) and annihilated them once, and had a very close tie the second time..

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    Lootas would be effective against nids. Cut down warriors real good, plus High S enough to hurt the big ones as well as (the potential) for lots of shots to kill a score of the little ones. Also AP 4 will cut down warriors and genestealers, even with extended carapace!!!

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    how Killy would this be?

    I was just wondering...


    How killy would this army be at 750 pts.

    (vs Marines, Eldar, Necron and Tyranid)

    BIG
    HQ
    Big Mek, 'eavy Armor KFF -90pts

    Troops
    19x Shoota boyz 2x Big Shootas, Nob PK 159 pt
    20x Shoota Boyz 2x Big Shootas, Nob PK 165 pt

    2x BattleWagons Deffrollas Red Paint. 230 pt

    Elite
    7x Loota 105 pt

    or

    HQ
    Big Mek KFF

    Troops
    20x Shoota Boyz, Nob PK 155pts.
    12x Boyz Nob PK--Trukk Red Ram 152 pts.

    Fast Attack
    5x Bikers Nob PK BP 165pts

    Elite
    6x Lootas 90pts




    Just Keep in Mind....

    The Eldar will probably have Prince Yriel, Farseer, Guardians and other stuff.
    The Necron will probably have Warriors, Necron Lord and Destroyers
    The Tyranid will probably have a Hive Tyrant, Carnifex, Genestealers, Gaunts.
    The Marines...no clue honestly. I know one player will have some anti-vehicle stuff. Not sure what.

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