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Okay I get the spending the points on powers as both advenger powers totally rock but why a shimmer sheild -power weapon combo?
For less points you can take an extra gun for uber range pawnage now i can understand taking them over this in an effort to make an all rounder unit but,
Why take them over the diresword and pistol ?
Pros dire sword - force weapon that dosn't require psychic test and enemy takes a test for each wound suffered as well as power weapon, pistol still gives a little shooting and provides the model with +1 attack.
Pros shimmersheild - 5+ invun for combat only....i mean really overall is a 5+ invun really that good considering thier armour is 4+ and most attacks don't ignore it?
Against mc's/ic's the diresword has a higher probability of removing the model before he can strike meaning the power wep is gone before it becomes a factor.
Please use capitals and punctuation in future.
Last edited by Skarsgard; February 15th, 2009 at 08:52. Reason: Capitals and Punctuation.
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Deciding what to equip your dire avengers with is something that takes a bit of thought, especially depending on what else you have in your army.
I will offer my humble opinions:
Twin Avenger Catapults:
--As you mentioned, this allows for a fusillade of fire at an extended range. With Bladestorm you can unleash a virtually horrific amount of shuriken fire into your opponent. I have seen entire squads reduced to som uch gory paste. This is, honestly, my favorite build. Used in a falling fire sort of tactic, or being unleashed out of a transport makes this pretty burly.
Power Weapon/Shimmer Shield
--Originally, I was against this build for my exarch, but after a bit of thought I warmed up to it. The power weapon lets you ignore your opponent's armor, and when used in conjuction with say Doom it means you may be a bit more potent. But the real reason to use the PW/SS combo is as a tarpit. With your high initiative, you go first more often than not. Best case scenario, you kill some of your opponent, which reduces the retaliatory strikes. Then, because you gave your exarch Defend you reduce the number of inbound attacks. Fewer attacks mean fewer hits, fewer hits mean fewer wounds, fewer wounds mean fewer dead eldar. Then, you opponent uses his power fist. Instead of crushing one of your troopers, the shimmer shield lets you make a save. Sure, it's not great (comparable to a terminators Inv. save) but when you take it in conjuction with Fortune it really comes into its own. But yes, you are losing out on an avenger's worth of shooting.
--Meh. I am not a fan of this build. None of the exarch powers augment it very well, and other than granting an additional power weapon attack it doesn't really provide much on its own. Sure the diresword might insta-kill someone if they fail a leadership test. But honestly... single wound models are already dead after they fail a save, and multi wound models almost always have A) A toughness too high to reliably wound, An invulnerable save of some variety, C) a Ld value of 10, or D) Eternal Warrior. So even if you managed to Doom your opposing model, and inflict a wound...the chances of the opponent being insta-killed are slim to none. I wouldn't waste the points on it. Plus, considering you only have a pistol, by the time you are in pistol range, you probably wouldn't matter any more if you did or didn't have a pistol.
These are just my opinions. Two Cents & Salt
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I gota speak up for the diresword. It's version of "instant death" is not cvered by eternal warrior. It specifically says it kills the opponent outright and it neglects to mention instant death, so that's one bonus there. It is the middle ground of choices with an emphasis on character hunting. You can still bladestorm the pistol, albeit at a shorter range, and you can dish out a little more in close combat at the cost of protecting your squad. This squad is best used in conjunction with doom and thought of as a kamikaze missile headed at the opponent's HQ.
Last edited by Dekendo; February 14th, 2009 at 15:38.
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I always use my Dire Avengers for shooting. Sure they might have access to stuff that might help in CC but they will quickly be overwhelmed since they have a so-so armor save and rather weak CC skills.
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I use the sword / shield combo on my avengers because I need them more as a tarpit unit. I have a squad of Banshees with attached autarch if I need a character to be dead as they're vastly more reliable at that. The shimmer shield lets the avenger squad last long enough to either get relief, or keep something tied up long enough to actually matter.
The diresword's reliance on a failed Ld test from a multi-wound model is just... bleh. It's nothing you can ever rely on, especially against MCs since they're basically all either Ld 10 (wooo a 1/12 chance of working!) or T7+ (and immune to a S3 weapon of any kind), or in the case of nids, in synapse and auto-passing that Ld check anyway. If it works, it's gravy. Kinda like pinning these days. Unless you bring buckets of it it's unlikely to ever have any effect, let alone have effect when you really need it to. If we had some ability like the imperial assassin or the nid psychic scream powers then it'd be a bit more worth while, but that's just not the case.
The diresword / pistol combo does give a little more offensive punch though, and there's nothing wrong with that. And it's a bit cheaper on points. So it's not a bad option, but if you really wanted pure offensive power you'd probably just take the twin guns since that's where avengers do the most damage anyway.
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Well, you can turn your avengers into decent shocktroops by giving the exarch defend and the shimmershield. You can even keep the bladestorm. Add in an autarch with a power weapon and an avenger catapulst and you have a decent, if not terribly efficient, unit. It does well against other tarpit units, like massive gaunt and boyz swarms, helped by the fact that Eldar will go first in CC.
Also, with bladestorm, no shooting next turn, and the DA catapult is still fairly short ranged. Sure, regular squads won't be able to hit you, but most combat specialists in the game have additional movement, such as jetpacks, raiders, fleet, etc.
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I take both powers and the powerweapon/shimmershield combo.
Having 27 strength 4 shots and then charging into combat can wreck most units days.
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I do the same Skarsgard do. Considering my Guardians Defensive Objective taker units, my both Dire Avengers squads go through the hardest of fighting to take objectives at the far side of table. Thus I mount them in serpent for protection all along the watchtower and unlaunch them at the beginning of turn (if Serpent is still movable). I give them a Frotune/Doom Farseer and thus I have two reaaaly powerful Troops units able to withstand monstrous firepower and beat CC Specialists. I can recall two of my favourite moments, one when Wolf Priest with Grey Hunters charged them (10-man squad with Farseer, all being Fortuned) and I won combat by one (I killed three, they killed... two. all Hail Defend). And then... they got doom. Seriously beaten.
Later Avenger transport got destroy on clear flank far far away from objective. In thrre turns with Farseer they managed to kill Daemon Prince, full 7-man strong Thousand Sons squads, two Obliterators and 6 intercepting Raptors along with Immobilising Rhino (Farseer's spear). In the end, the single surviving Avenger (both Exarch and Farser were dead up to this moment) climbed to the top of desacrated imperial cathedral and scored objective. The rest of my army was defending my own, so I won.
You should never regret spending points on Avengers, as they are rocklike allrounders that are in fact Troops. Not even Marines have such potencial. Full tactical squad would never manage such things.
I usually army my exarchs with avenger catapults for 5 shots with the blade storm, but now Im considering the power weapon and shimmershield. alot more combat potential, and say you go up against crons, which I did, i charged in, and I lost combat. If i would have had the power weapon, i could have downed at least 1 or 2 necrons to win combat, and overrun him and take out the squad. darn, need to buy more dire avengers to make exarchs!
If you are going to get into close combat, you would be foolish to forgo the shimmer-shield and power-weapon combo.
If you are mech, or are planning on staying away from close combat, then take the extra catapult.
Its really all about adding a bit of flexibility in a list that has gotten increasingly constrained (though arguably more characterful) over time. Back in the day you could do a lot of different things with exarchs and change the way your squads played...or just have the exarch as an Independent character do whatever you wanted him to do.
I typically take the shimmer-shield since I have never been able to really avoid CC with any consistency. You take DAs, with the shield and 'Fortuned' and you have a stuck unit...especially if they also have "Defend".
Envision some really pissed of Terminators. (Or holding off big nasties long enough for a good counterstrike with one's own CC forces.)
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