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i'm having trouble with harlequins, i know i want some but it's so easy to overspend as they are pricey even for eldar
i would like you guys to post your harlequin units so i can get an idea of what works and whats overkill
if you don't use harleys then some comments on why not to use them would be good or what you would do if you did
Believe in me, even if we are torn apart our feelings will unite us that is what this post is all about.
I used to use Harlequins. Either 6 with Kisses and Shadowseer or 10 with Kisses, Shadowseer, Jester and Master with Power Weapon. I haven't used them for circa 1 year and I am not going to, as Waveserpented Banshees on Doom cost the same, do sometimes better, fight better, are faster, are less vulnerable to enemy deep strikes and flamers and provide you with uggah tank.
I actually use Banshees over harlies as well. I like thier consistency so I know better what they'll do to an enemy when they charge, as I'm not as reliant on rolling 6's. I used to field a lot of rending-heavy units with my chaos marines (possessed, daemonettes, mounted daemonettes) and while rending is nice, I like solid power weapons better overall.
The transport is another reason since I play a mech-heavy force, and would want more then just the 6 harlies I can cram in a falcon (not to mention keep the falcon shooting instead). Though with 5th edition you can buy a serpent for a guardian squad you camp on a home objective then cram the harlies into that.
Other then that I'm just not a huge fan of the minis, which is probably the biggest reason I don't field them
Last edited by Xardian; February 17th, 2009 at 14:57.
I run a small squad of 6 (4 with Kisses, Shadowseer (I haven't converted it to have a Kiss), and a Troupe Master with power weapon). They basically sit back with my Rangers and Walkers and act as a counter charge against oncoming assault unit and terminators. They also make great mobile cover for the rangers.
I'm pretty sure it says in the codex that if they have a shadowseer then they never count for blocking line of sight.They also make great mobile cover for the rangers.
But you can step away during movement and Run in front of Pathfinders after they have done their job.
I use a full squad of 10 includng Master with PW and ShadowSeer with Kiss, and the other 8 all have kisses (though I can drop that down a bit if I need to, to have some to lose if I get shot at (which is rare), or if I can't assault with all 10 the ones without kisses go in the back. I personally think they are more versatile than banshees, because they fair much better against hordes (with more attacks and higher strength on the charge), and generally do just as well against MEQ's and TEQ's*, and can do better against MC's and vehicles. Running them through cover is great, as it doesn't slow them down, and can help make sure they attack first (which they usually do). One thing that people don't think of that makes them very handy is the ability to put IC's with them, and give the IC's VoT. While they lose the ability to ignore cover for movement purposes, having a fortune, doom seer run with them is fantastic, and I believe because they have fleet they roll 3 D6 for movement anyway.
* The reason I say they do just as well, is that while you don't generate as many armor save ignoring attacks, you generate more wounds, and in general will still wipe out whatever it is you are facing, at least in my limited experience.
For those that use a Kiss on the Shadowseer, how did you do the conversion?
My Shadowseer is complete and painted, but I'd really like to add a Kiss to make her a bit more useful. Any suggestions would be great.
And besides, wouldn't you rather hurt something with the harlies then play meat curtain?
I ran a little math out of curiousity.
10 banshees, exarch, executioner, serpent VS 10 harlies, master, seer, 8 kisses
Furious charge helps harlies generate a lot more wounds on the charge(just shy of 21 total vs MEQ). However, since everyone strikes at the same initiative with a mix of rending and normal hits, this lets the other guy play all sorts of wound allocation shenanigans. Against a typical marine squad (10 man, 2 special gear troops, sarge), the Banshees kill 1 more then harlies assuming both have a dooming farseer. That's just the actual assault. Banshees left 1 standing, harlies left 2. Against hordes, harlies win out handily by attack volume.
There's more to it then that, of course. There's the price. 10 banshees with a cheap serpent costs about the same as a tricked out 10-man harlie squad (add 2 fusion guns to the above squad, and give the serpent shuriken cannon turret and it's exactly the same). You get some versatility from that skimmer since it can be armed with anti-tank or anti-horde, and it can taxi anyone now (including harlies! ). It also gives a little more reliable delivery option then veil, which is more vulnerable to rapid-fire, especially from drive-by rhino attacks or jump infantry.
The harlies would also lose Hit & Run. Which is important since rending isn't very good for dropping AV12+ tanks (like dreadnoughts) when you're base Strength is a mere 3. You have a chance on the charge, but after that you're mostly up the creek. You'll get an averange of 1 pen and 1 glance on the charge, and an average of less then 1 glance per round after that. On the bright side, witchblades are made of awesome against tanks. Nothing like swinging a lascannon in close combat Just pray your invulnerable save holds up, or you're getting splattered by the S10 attack.
Last edited by Xardian; February 17th, 2009 at 20:59.