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I used to use Incubi all the time, then as I started to focus my list, I found time and time again that their points could be better spent elsewhere. Just to many times getting caught a few inches short of a charge that even a 1-2" fleet would have made up the difference. I've started to notice that most competitive lists seem to omit them as well.
So my question how would you fix incubi? Me, I'm a big fan of anyting that gives them fleet (even moving them to a 4+ armor save).
I do use Incubi but only in the larger point games when they are worth the points if you are able to assault against MEQ though in smaller games and even larger ones when your opponent is of a lower armor value wyches and warriors are the better options
I use incubi - in my mechanised army I have a wych squad with a dracite, a retinue squad and two warrior squads on Raiders with agonisers. The retinue is there to provide the punch, the others are fairly light on power bar the wych-dracite squad.
I don't compete in tournaments, I just haven't yet. But in my pick up games I've been using them because they are basically the only cc unit I have ready that I'm not ashamed of putting on the board. ( painted and ready to go )
Help the kin TAKE your soul, I mean, take your soul...
I play Vassal. I'm in V40K Open Ladder.
two words: Hell yeah!
I love me some Incubi!
(WH40K) Dark Eldar - (12,000pts) Sisters of Battle - (5000pts) Dark Angels -(3500pts) (WHFB) Dark Elves - (10,000pts) Beastmen - (5000pts) Empire - (3000pts) Wood Elves - (1500pts)
They are good, but as you pointed out the fleet can kick you in the arse and points could be better spent elsewhere.
So far no. I just can't find the points for them in 500 - 1000 point armies.
Maybe when I expand to 1500 I'll get a proper incubi retinue.
I still do love the incubi even though I don't use them.
To me this is an interesting question that sits at a deeper level in my list designs.
To answer the question immediately I normally do not use them (same with 4th ed. I just didn't use them). Main reason being expense, liability of a small squad and as others have mentioned their mobility. So for the last couple years, no.
What I would like to see in the new dex:
*Reduced armor save to 4+ and get fleet
*Either raise the leadership to 9 or give them universal "stubborn" rule at leadership 8.
*Maybe* let us take them as a solo unit like "elite" and as a balance force us to take the Incubi Master (gotta have some balance so whatever is fair).
I think that would make them a little more mobile and also make them a little more like an elitist trained mercenary squad with the "stubborn" rule (much like the Fantasy Dark Elf Black Guard).
However, I did use them for the first time just a couple days ago and I put them in the list for this reason: they absolutely destroy marines even when I roll badly. Usually in a list I would choose another wych squad over taking an Incubi squad but lately I have had some really bad experiences getting the wyches to produce enough wounds to cripple the target squad. Sometimes I even whiff incredibly and as we all know if the wyches do not get a good charge/kill round they are going to get in trouble.
So, I decided to place a squad of incubi in a list with a Dracon and sent this 6 man squad against a Death Company (the blood angels special squad?) and Chaplin. To add the "sweetness" to the story the opponent was saying how great this squad was and all his past exploits with them and their CC killyness. Well, you should have seen his face when they were all wiped out, only the Chaplin survived losing 1 wound (he was able to kill 2 Incubi). My Dracon easily killed the Chaplin in his turn and his smug face turned spiteful - the squad was loaded back on their raider and immediately evacuated all his squads away from them.
That was worth it to me - as all my play-testing with Incubi had concluded the same thing, they are Marine death.
I think the question now is not their effectiveness in combat but how to get them into combat. For the beginner user this would be very hard to do - for the more seasoned DE player I would say I am considering them for the Las Vegas GT just to take down those fancy Space Marine special characters I am going to see.
Last edited by KwiKwag; March 4th, 2009 at 18:28.
"On a hunch, I melted them down and inhaled the fumes and read the dark eldar codex again, AND FOUND A BUNCH OF NEW RULES HIDDEN BEHIND THE OTHER WORDS..." [Gardeth on modelling & interpreting the DE Codex]
Sounds like you came to the same reasons I did Kwi. I also struggled with getting wyches to cause enough wounds to break a squad but I have found a couple of answers to that question, namely HQs. I run my archon attached to 1 wyche squad (punisher and agonzier), another squad is a retinue for a dracite (2 agonizers in the squad!), and a third squad to either help out one of the other two, take out soft targets, or just delay nastier squads (nob bikers and the like). The first two units have done extremely well in killing just about everything save for walkers (damn AV......)
Incubi are kind of expensive but i find them to be worth it and bring them unless i know that i am going up against guard. I find that it isn't always about having a good point trade off with what a unit kills and how much they cost but that its about making sure you got the best position and that the enemy units that need to die, actually die. Wyches are fun but they don't pack a lot of punch if you need to make sure something goes down quick. The incubi and the talos are the real heavy hitters for offensive CC. Against marines i always want to have incubi. The 3+ armor save really lets them survive pretty well, especially since heavy weapons are ordinarily trying to take down the raiders. If the incubi get into CC, not much is going to beat them. I've had a 6 man squad with a dracon take down 10 assault marines and a chaplain pretty easily. At one tournament, my incubi were right next to some burna boyz. Some spectator came up to the table, pointed at my incubi and said "They are SO dead." I laughed and said the orks were dead and he didn't seem convinced. Of course, at the end of assault phase the burna boyz were wiped out and all 6 incubi were still kickin'.