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Welcome once again to 'Your Favorite Unit Sucks'!
This time, we're going over slugga boyz...don't worry, they only suck when on foot.
People keep suggesting at least half of all units in a footslogging army be slugga boyz, but for the life of me, I can't see why. All sluggas get is 1 additional attack per model in close combat, which is nice when close combat is all but assured (when being transported in trukks or battlewagons), but not so good when they spend around 2/3 of the game outside close combat, if they even make it there at all.
The guns of slugga boyz have only 12in range, and since you'd only use them if you're not close enough to fleet and assault, it's safe to say that the back half of the horde isn't going to be in range to fire. If 15 are in range (a generous assumption, but we'll go along with it), then they get 5 hits and 2.5 wounds (assuming their opponent has toughness 4). We won't count shots from additional weapons (big shootas, rokkits) because both units can take them, so they aren't statistically relevant. Even if you're within assault range to start with, 30 shots is 10 hits and 5 wounds. Hardly earthshattering, and that's in the best of circumstances.
A horde of 30 shoota boyz would most likely all be within range, which is 59 shots (nob has a pistol), 19-20 hits, and 9-10 wounds.
Now I know what some of you are thinking. 1 extra attack for 29 boyz (the nob is unaffected) means 14-15 more hits (assuming the target has WS 4), which is 7 more wounds in close combat. It's 9-10 versus 9-10. So sluggas and shootas are equal, right?
Thinking like that can cost you games. Yes, slugga boyz make up the difference in damage during the assault, but what people often forget is that shooting occurs a LOT more often than assault. The shoota boyz can run forward turn 1, and then shoot at the enemy for the rest of the game, since they only have to be within 18 inches. The slugga boyz aren't going to be within range until turn 3, or possibly even 4. Hell, if the enemy is mechanized, they may never reach close combat at all.
Also, hordes of slugga boyz have a harder time against entrenched enemies, since they don't come with stikkbombs standard. Shoota boyz can fire away from outside the terrain, but slugga boyz have to go last in the assault. It's admittedly not a big deal against many armies (because of their low initiative), but it's absolutely CRIPPLING when fighting other Ork players. Nothing's sadder than watching a unit of slugga boyz get slaughtered by shoota boyz in the assault, just because the shoota boyz got to attack first.
Yes, the waaaugh can get slugga boyz into close combat very quickly, but it requires a risk that shoota boyz don't have to take.
Let's say you start the turn roughly 14-16 inches away from the enemy. The slugga boyz can move 6in forward, waaaaugh another d6, and then assault 6 inches. Altogether, they can move 13-18 inches total. Will they make it? Who knows. Slugga boyz have to take this added risk just to get on par with shoota boyz. Shoota boyz, on the other hand, could just sit in place and fire away. There's no risk. They're definitely getting their attacks.
Shoota boyz are less risky, more efficient, and superior in every way besides one: the extra attack per model. It's only in transports, which get the boyz into assault on turn 2, or 3 at the latest (with no shooting up to then), where slugga boyz are a superior option.
All things considered, when going on foot, you're better off with grotts. They're at least as good during shooting, and although Orks are much better in close combat, grotts are half the price.
Leave the sluggas in the trukks and battlewagons. Footslogging's for shoota boyz only.
Why grax, why?
First Flash Gitz, then Deff Dreds, now slogglin' sluggas! Do you hate me?
All kidding aside, you've got a good point. I have a buttload of sluggas and not too many transports, so I usually have a foot slogging unit of sluggas on the board. I'll say one thing for them though, they certainly garner a lot of fear from the other player who tends to shoot at them a lot and ignore most of my other units.
Course, to make matters worse, I usually play against a guard player with two basilisks. Ouch, pain, pain, pain. Thank goodness for Kustom Force fields.
Mathhammer and beardiness aside, I can honestly say nothing makes me grin like hordes of boyz charging on foot straight down the middle of the map. Even though most of them get slaughtered, I love it how I always seem to still have enough sluggas left to krump most units, assuming they aren't, oh, say plaugebearers with full Epidemius tally. But that's a horror-story for another day.
Well with Sluggas you are forced to continue to run/fleet and dont have to worry about whether or not to shoot when you are unsure of your charge range.
"They say the Darkness consumes you. They don't say what happens after It's done."
I'm sick of my sluggas getting cut down to half of their starting number, and then getting poor results with the handful of boyz that even make it to combat. And I ran 40 sluggas in a 1500 point list.
All my sluggas are going into Trukks from now on. Footsloggin's fer da shootiest of da boyz!
I couldn't think of anything funny, smart, or witty to say, so I said this.
I agree that sluggas=mech bread and butter, and shootas=horde bread and butter. I wouldn't go as far as to say they "suck", because x pts for your basic ork stat-line is still pretty scary, but shootas are obviously a smarter option for slogging forces.
If you are going with a MASSIVE horde list, I don't think it's a bad idea to have 1-2 units of slugga boys. When you have 90+ shootas, your fire-lanes are going to be so congested with boys, and when your guns are only 18" there are a lot of shoota boys that are going to end up just rushing into combat with minimal (if any) firing being done. At that point you might as well have some sluggas to be the counter-chargers to whetever charges your shootas.
I think 2-1 ratio (shootas-sluggas) is healthy for foot sloggas. It also looks nicer to have a bit of variety in your army.
A lot of it would also depend on how many points you are spending for "insurance" on your boys. Shootas themselves help thin out the enemy before reaching combat (which is an ork inevitability in most cases) while sluggas can't, however, if you are using a KFF, grots, distracting forces, etc, it becomes more and more viable to run slugga boys.
"...a swarm of mechanised locusts sweeping over the land, stripping it bare of resources, bringing death and destruction to anything that stands in its path. Emperor preserve us against the predations of these so-called Orkish cults of speed!" - Cardinal Nomura at the Conclave of Hessen
One thing you fail to account for grax is the idea of combat on limited numbers. When you whittle a shoota boy unit down to 10 or fewer they're suddenly not much of a CC threat, while sluggas have an additional 10 attacks. True, the nob remains, but even a small number of sluggas can be devestating on a charge, while shootas just don't cut it in lower numbers.
Also, for me shooting has limitations in ork fighting strengths. We can shoot the crap out of a unit but rarely destroy it. Better to get in cc with sluggas where you can (usually) be garunteed to wipe out the unit to a man. Thus, the attacks v. shots comparison changes. The short range of shootas also elminates easily focusing firepower with multiple shootas.
I like both but I think that unless you have a lot of backup firepower, shooting with shoota boys won't often yield game-changing results, where as cc will.
Now this one is going to hurt some people
I went out and got a whole bunch of Sluggas when I started Orks, now I have 100 of the buggers and I rarely use more than half, and they're all in Trukks or BWs. I'll be kunverting them to shootas in short order, 60 seems like a good number.
I'll agree with grax on this one. For footslogging, Shootas are easily the better option. They have a larger threat area, swap 1 attack in HtH for 2 shots at the same S and better AP, and still perform admirably in assault.
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I think im beginning to see a pattern. All your 'Your Favorite Unit Sucks'! post ends up with "you're better off with grotts" in fact that would probably be a better title.
that said i totally agree the only slugga boys in my army have a transport simply because without it they just arnt effective. having orks trudge up the table with SHOOT ME!! painted on themselves is a great way to LOSE THE GAME.
Last edited by eldratch the fallen; March 4th, 2009 at 23:43.
I love Pathfinders.
Alright, Grax. I get it! You've already convinced me to invest in a few Grots
Another point I'd like to make in favor of da Shoota Boyz.. is that Sluggas are only great if they charge, and even then only on the first round of combat! Once they hit, if they don't win, they're more likely to be in for an uphill struggle to win. Shootas, on the other hand, ALWAYS get the a bucket full of dice, and are ALWAYS Str 4!
Plus.. Nobody expects Ork Shootas to mop them up! Speaking of.. please don't ruin the element of surprise for me, Grax. We's gots ta start bashin em Dakka 'eads so's dem 'umies dun wizen up!
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Da Moo Kowz is da drinkinest Orks of dem all!
Eldratch you're a genius! Okay, the new title of the 'your favorite unit sucks' column is:
You're Better Off With Grots
(it's only one 't', even though I often spell it with two)
Thank you Eldratch! You did not fall in vain!
As usual, you have a point Bruiser117, but I think using that many footslogging boyz is a bad idea. At most I'd use 3 units of 30 shoota boyz, 1 unit of grotts for holding objectives, and 2 mobile troop choices, either in trukks or battlewagons. I still wouldn't use footslogging slugga boyz because more important than 'lanes of fire' is 'lanes of movement'. Anything more than 100 boyz on foot will just clog up the board, until you can barely move anything.
I know it may touch a nerve, but I think the popularity of footslogging slugga boyz is more a result of economics, rather than effectiveness. Slugga boyz are simply a lot cheaper and easier to get than shoota boyz (especially after the Assault on Black Reach release), so when it comes down to real $, many players can either have 40 shoota boyz or 80 slugga boyz, and I have to admit, if you could only have one or the other, then you'd be better off with more Orks than better Orks (although I'd look for a way to convert them).
In a way, the situation is similar to that of Deff Dreads. Killa Kans are a lot more effective, but if you want official models, then a plastic Marine Dread (again, from the Assault on Black Reach sets) is a lot cheaper and easier to get than 2-3 Killa Kans. Of course, I just converted my killa kans out of parts, so there's a way around everything.
Okay, so footslogging slugga boyz only suck when you compare them to footslogging shoota boyz...and grots, of course. ^_^
Last edited by mynameisgrax; March 5th, 2009 at 03:53. Reason: forgot one thing