Wounds allocation for tomb spyders and scarabs? - Warhammer 40K Fantasy
 

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  1. #1
    Member syaoran's Avatar
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    Wounds allocation for tomb spyders and scarabs?

    Hey all,

    I'm just getting into warhammer and have fallen in love with the necrons. Been reading these forums for awhile now, so decided to post a topic, one of which I'm trying to get my head around.

    I've taken a special interest in tomb spyders but I need help with allocating wounds when they have a scarab with them.

    I know there's a rule where you have to allocated one wound to all members of a units before a second can be allocated, for etc... you cant have 3 scarabs out of 10 with 2 wounds each and the rest with none.

    So with that in mind, lets say you were in assault with say 10 basic marine troops and you have 3 tomb spyders all with 1 scarab each, lets say after 10 attacks, 6 wound are caused on you. Can you allocate all those wounds to your scarabs and just roll for there saves, or do you have to allocated 1 wound to each member of the unit, 1 to each spyder and scarab.

    On the same note, just say 7 attacks landed a wound, could you then also allocated 6 wounds to your scarabs and 1 to one of your tomb spyders.

    I may be a simple question to some, but I'm just starting and would really like any help available.

    Thanks all,


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  3. #2
    Senior Member Dark Trainer's Avatar
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    Well I see some questions I'm not sure of in there, but let me explain my understanding of it. You're saying all 3 tomb spyders and their single scarabs each are in the same CC fight. He lands 6 wounds you would put 3 on the scarabs first, then 3 on the tomb spyders. However since they kinda act as squads I'm not sure if spreading it amongst multiple squads is ok, or if you have to keep it to one spyder/scarab squad. Basically the 5th edition rule states go around with one wound to each model then go around again. You can assign them anyway you want as long as each model has a wound assigned before Doubling another. If you got 7 wounds, you would do 3 to scarabs, 3 to spyder, then 1 more to a scarab (completing the circle).


    FYI, i'm sure i might have missed something, but that's my shot at it.

    P.S. You get to assign the wounds, so I usually put no save ones on the scarabs UNLESS it's double toughness because that would insta kill a swarm...but that'd be ok if you already had 3 MAJOR wounds assigned to it (say he landed a TON of blows). Example: Single spyder with single scarab. He lands say 2 S9 wounds and 3 normal wounds. I would assign 2 savable wounds to spyder and both S9 wounds and extra to the scarab.
    Last edited by Dark Trainer; March 17th, 2009 at 18:03.
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  4. #3
    LO's Resident Time Lord Canew's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dark Trainer View Post
    Basically the 5th edition rule states go around with one wound to each model then go around again. You can assign them anyway you want as long as each model has a wound assigned before Doubling another. If you got 7 wounds, you would do 3 to scarabs, 3 to spyder, then 1 more to a scarab (completing the circle).
    Don't the rules also say, however, that you can't stop allocating wounds to a swarm once you've started? If so, doesn't that mean once you put one wound on the swarm, the next two go to that swarm?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dark Trainer View Post
    FYI, i'm sure i might have missed something, but that's my shot at it.

    P.S. You get to assign the wounds, so I usually put no save ones on the scarabs UNLESS it's double toughness because that would insta kill a swarm...
    In this case, it's not possible to insta-kill a swarm, as the swarms use (I think) the majority toughness rule to take on the Spyder's toughness. Nothing in 40k has the strength to match double of that.
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    Senior Member Dark Trainer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Canew View Post
    Don't the rules also say, however, that you can't stop allocating wounds to a swarm once you've started? If so, doesn't that mean once you put one wound on the swarm, the next two go to that swarm?
    Yes, that's why I said if he had 7 wounds suffered, he assigned 3 wounds to the 3 scarabs, the must now assign 3 to the 3 spyders, and one more back to a scarab of his choice.



    Quote Originally Posted by Canew View Post
    In this case, it's not possible to insta-kill a swarm, as the swarms use (I think) the majority toughness rule to take on the Spyder's toughness. Nothing in 40k has the strength to match double of that.
    Actually this is incorrect. There is a huge thread about this on the forums here. Majority toughness is used when your opponent rolls to wound you. So if he has an S6 weapon he needs to roll high enough to wound T6...however once that is done, majority toughness NO LONGER applies and your scarab swarm now has wounds allocated accordingly and the double toughness rule would apply (however there's nothing saying you can't put as many of those nasty wounds into just ONE scarab and allow everything else to save). Depends on how many of those wounds you get I suppose.
    Last edited by Dark Trainer; March 18th, 2009 at 17:52.
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    Member syaoran's Avatar
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    Thanks for the response, It re-conforms what may understanding of the rules to be but how does that work when your looked in combat over at space for several rounds, for etc…

    Round one of assault, your opponent landed 6 wounds, you assigned 3 to your scarabs and 3 to your spyders. The spyders rolled saves but the scarabs failed, so come next round of assault your opponent only lands 3 wounds, do those wounds have to be assigned back to your spyders because your scarabs have already taken a wound each, or can you re-assign them back to your scarabs again as it’s a new round ?.

    In the game I played the other night, I wanted to assign them back to my scarabs but my opponent stated I couldn’t due to fact that they already had a wound each and the rules state that you must allocate a wound to each model in a unit before a second one can be allocated.

    I believe what he said was wrong but as he was the host’s of that night’s game, I didn’t want to make waves.

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    No Life King Alzer's Avatar
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    Well if the scarab fails it's saves wouldn't it be dead by this point?
    Wounds are allocated before saves are made. So as long as the scarab is alive, you can assign as many wounds to it as you do to the spyder, and the number of wounds TAKEN is irrelevant.

    I think what you're going for here is. If your spyder hasn't taken any wounds and your scarabs HAVE (for failing saves) the scarabs can't be assigned wounds, which is false. however if there is more than one wound to dole out, the spyder has to take one as well (so if you take 5 wounds in the unit, the scarabs could take 3 and the spyder would take 2)

    In your case you would have to assign ONE of the three wounds to your spyder, but the other two could get stacked onto scarabs.

    EDIT: Grantneo it's not MY fault that you type too much.
    Last edited by Alzer; March 19th, 2009 at 18:31.

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    Senior Member grantneodude's Avatar
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    Depends how many scarabs you had. Technically if you had three bases, and three wounds on scarabs, when you failed all three you should have just removed a base and been done with it. But the only way to get three wounds on the spyder while only taking 6 would be to have one scarab, in which case you would no longer have it in the next round of combat. Can you try and explain your situation more fully? I'll admit I might be the only one confused but find that unlikely. Thank you for any clarifications you can make and I'll try to answer following as best I can from your statement.

    It seems to me that you have a TS in combat with three adjuct scarabs. You then put one wound on each scarab and three on the TS. Ignoring the fact that you technically can't do this let's continue. Your TS then makes his save but all three scarabs fail theirs. In your game this puts a wound on each scarab. In the next assault phase your opponent claims that you cannot put wounds on the scarabs as they each have one and the TS does not. That statement is just wrong. The "needing a wound allocated to each model before you can give a second" only applies to each phase individually, not the whole game. Although technically you shouldn't encounter a situation like that as you are supposed to consolidate wounds and remove models when possible.

    Anyway, I hope that helps. If I've misinterpreted what you have said feel free to let me know, and I'm sure someone else can help you where I've misstepped.

    EDIT: Damnit Alzer. You beat me while I was typing. No fair ; )
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    Senior Member Dark Trainer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alzer View Post
    Well if the scarab fails it's saves wouldn't it be dead by this point?
    Wounds are allocated before saves are made. So as long as the scarab is alive, you can assign as many wounds to it as you do to the spyder, and the number of wounds TAKEN is irrelevant.

    I think what you're going for here is. If your spyder hasn't taken any wounds and your scarabs HAVE (for failing saves) the scarabs can't be assigned wounds, which is false. however if there is more than one wound to dole out, the spyder has to take one as well (so if you take 5 wounds in the unit, the scarabs could take 3 and the spyder would take 2)

    In your case you would have to assign ONE of the three wounds to your spyder, but the other two could get stacked onto scarabs.

    EDIT: Grantneo it's not MY fault that you type too much.
    His situation had 3 spyders and 3 scarab swarms involved. So he has 15 wounds to deal with here.

    And to point out, if your spyders saved first turn and your scarabs took 3 wounds (1 scarab base would have been removed). NEXT round with 3 wounds suffered you start by assigning to your 2 remaining scarabs. You don't have to assign them to the spyders first just because they SAVED the last wounds assigned.
    Last edited by Dark Trainer; March 19th, 2009 at 20:42.
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