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With Dire Avengers, Harlequins, and a slew of HQ choices packing invulnerable saves with the possibilities of re-rolls one of the last things an Eldar general wants to do is run into something he was expecting to laugh off only to have it wipe out their army.
So in the spirit of preparedness what out there in the game can ignore invulnerable saves?
Off the top of my head I remember some daemonhunter heavy bolter thing that ignores them. But I'm pretty sure there's some other stuff.
Grey knights have psycannons, incinerators, and psicannon bolts. A heavy bolter, heavy flamer, and bolter upgrade respectively. Witch Hunters can also buy the psicannon bots.
Necrons have warscythes and C'tan. Both are CC attacks and only on HQ units or pariahs.
Space marine librarians can force rerolls on successful invi saves.
That's all I can think of off the top.
Thing to remember is, a 4+ or 5+ save, even invulnerable, is only so much protection, Eldar are not very capable of taking hits. Yes you get a SAVE vs. that battlecannon, but it's only going to be 30% or 50% effective.
Hmm Speaking of effectivness i just though of an interesing idea.
+ spirit seer with conceal (could someone clarrify they can have this not 100% sure)
+ farseer with fortune
that would give you (essentially) 4 5+ saves on each harlequin right?
re rolling only failed saves, i like those odds
I think rather than considering what negates inv saves as an eldar player you should looking to not taking unneccary fire because your t3 is a greater laibilty. What I mean is eldar are finesse. You rely on picking and winning fights rather than prtracted engagements. On a more practal note avoid units that can put a torrent of st4 or higher fire at greater than 36". You will learn to hate the heavy bolter (wounds on 2's)
Going through the lists in the back of the main book gives a pretty good idea what nearly all ranged weapons do. And the weapon list in the CC section plus the statlines in the back gives you a pretty good idea what to expect in CC. So you can learn what you're up against and act accordingly.
However the "ignores invulnerable saves" piece of information isn't availible unless you have access to and spend time with all the other armies codexes, hence why I'm hoping people can fill me in here before I have to learn the hard way.
Come to think of it don't the witch hunters also have some kinda spike thing they can use in CC that ignores invulnerables?
The Grey Knight thing doesn't ignore invuls apparently
Wait what? What do those weapons do now then?
Also do any of the assasins have an anti-invul save attack? I know one of them was meant to be anti psychers, and the female shape shifter one has a "C'tan phase blade" I believe.
Fortune rule says that it re rolls ANY failed saves till start of next turn. rules don't say its limited to just one type of save per turn, it says any
also you could then add 3 warlocks to your farseer to get conceal, re roll the invul saves and cover saves for the seer
so scrap the harlequin just a seer council with better saves that re-roll only failed ones
It is quite clear that even though a model may have an armor save, an invul save, and cover saves from a multitude of sources, all you can do is pick the best one and roll that one save.
So all conceal does in a warlock unit is provide a little insurance in case some ranged invulnerable save ignoring attacks are inbound. However if they were in a fortified building (3+ cover save) they'd roll that against most ranged attacks.
So what fortune means is that whichever single save you choose to use, you get to re-roll it. (i.e. if attacked by a unit with flamers and bolters while in 3+ cover save terrain, you'd use the invul saves against flamer wounds, and cover saves against bolter wounds. )
While we're on the subject you never get to re-roll a re-roll. So guiding a twin linked weapon doesn't do anything.
Last edited by sunnyside; March 18th, 2009 at 05:39.