Welcome to Librarium Online!
I've been playing Eldar for a little while now and wanted to try to get into more of an Ulthwe style of play.
I was just wondering what people think of Guardians in Wave Serpents. Also if Guardian Defenders of Storm Guardians would be more effective or whether or not to have a Warlock to keep them cheap.
I'd just like some input, popular load outs and opinions.
Thanks a ton in advance
I currently play mech Ulthwe and love it. I use the waveserpents heavy weapons and my fireprisms to take care of the bigger stuff that my guardians have problems with and then doom and flame infantry. I generally run 10 storm guardians with 2 flamers a warlock with destructor. For the wave serpents I use brightlances and stones, other add ons optional. I will drop the weapons down some if I don't think I'm going to run into alot of high AV and use the points else where. I have come to believe that the warlock is the best thing about guardians. Even with all my anti tank weapons often times the warlocks or farseers are getting as many or more of the vehicle kills in my matchs. I've started to play around with storms with 2 fusions and a warlock with a spear. these let me change my waveserpents weapons around to cheaper anti infantry weapons. But I haven't played this way enough to have an opinion on if I like it.
I've never played with defenders in serpents, I recall a thread not that long ago were a player started the defenders on the field shooting for a round or two then jumped into the transport to out run the on rushing melee units. It seemed like it might have some potential.
Yeah I was definitely looking at the 2 Flamers and Destructor combo. It's a good way to get around Guardians average BS.
Although, I find myself saying "Why don't I just take Dire Avengers?" with them having a superior stat line and just as expensive when you add in the warlock with the Guardians.
It's also difficult to fit much in after the Seer Council. I know i don't need one but they are pretty effective and fit the lore (maybe just cut back on them?)
But, My army pretty much looks like this right now:
-Fortune, Doom, Runes of Warding, and Spirit Stones
-Embolden, Enhance, 2 Destructor, and 2 Singing Spears
-Eldar Missile Launcher and Spirit Stones
2x 10 Guardian Defenders-230
-Warock w/ Embolden
2x 10 Storm Guardians-254
-Warlock w/ Destructor
2x Wave Serpents-260
-Eldar Missile Launchers and Spirit Stones
2x Fire Prisms-230
Comes to 1500 exactly
I just feel my troops are too fragile. Any ideas?
I've been using guardians in serpents and liking them quite a bit. I wouldn't use a shurican cannon though. Too short of range and not as many shots as the only slightly cheaper scatter laser.
The thing I've really come to like about them is their ability to stay out of trouble and survive. Check out the rules for units being in cover. So long as half the unit is concealed or in cover the whole unit gets the role. This means you can deploy guardians around the rear of a serpent, fire away, and any return fire gives them a 4+ save. They can also stick out "psudopods" from area terrain. That is most of the units is in the area terrain, but some models, usually spaced about 2" apart, stretch out to where you want to have your weapon positioned. Giving you an ideal firing postion and saves.
DA may kill more infantry close in. But because they all need to see the enemy to fire and because they're so much closer they have to expose themselves to return fire without saves and possibly get charged.
The guardians can also take out vehicles, which is increasingly key in 40K.
Personally I'm liking the scatter laser for taking down armor 10 or 11 vehicles or just putting some wounds on units at a distance, and I also rather like the missile launcher with it's long range, and the fact that even at BS3 they'll usually hit if firing a plasma missile at a crowd.
I haven't really tried the flaming stormies yet. I'm also leery of destructor. At Ld8 it's not actually that reliable especially with some of the anti psycher stuff around. I.e. if you're up against another Eldar player with runes of warding you're more likely to kill your warlock than any enemies.
On the other hand they're troops. Which can be very very useful.
Warlock powesr are not like normal psychic powers, they dont need to test to use them, so destructor is perfectly viable, plus they act as a psycher for your Wraith things if you ever decide to bring them.
I dont use guardians that much, but i do love the destructor power!
The guardians should still be cheaper when compared to the DAs remember they will have exarch dual cats and bladestorm added to the base cost. Storms have to get closer to do damage but I haven't had to many problems with that. The hidden witchblade allows the storms to be a threat to anything on the field, a single walker can tie up DAs forever, but thats not so when a warlock is there. The only real problem I have had is the lower LD and bad save. I often find them taking a few hits and running away, now embolden would help with that but not sure if I can deal with losing the destructor.
I don't run a real melee unit in my list until higher points ( 1750 + ) when I do I have found that banshees with their power weapons help me deal with good save units that the rest of my list struggles with. As such I have no council in my army. I don't miss it because of the dooms and flamers I already force a large number of saves on units much like a council would. When I do run them I either take them almost all without powers ( only and embolden and enhance maybe two of each ) and use them as a tarpit/counter charge unit. A small group in a transport with a couple of flamers can do alright and the witchblades turn them into a good AT unit also.
Actually on the note about them running off.
First as I think I said in this thread the rules for getting a cover save in this edition mean that if ranged firing guardians aren't getting one you really have to question why they aren't.
The other thing is that a fun thing about guardian defenders is that they are one of the few squads that still pose a significant threat when retreating. Continuing to send out a hail of heavy weapons fire until they hit the board edge.
If you want to go mech Guardians I'd recommend Storm over Defenders (and vice-versa for footslogging) You'll lose shots over an equal number of Avengers or Defenders and so against small elite units you may have more hits with Defenders, but the first time you shoot at something light with a cover save you'll wish they were Storms. On a good day Guard, Orks, gaunts and their ilk will shrung off vast amounts of shuriken fire in cover and since Orks have mobile cover in the Kustom Force Field coupled with the prevailence of cover anyway means it will happen often.
At this point the Stoms shine with 2 Flamers and a Heavy Flamer plus pistol fire. This can leave and entire brood/squad burning with no saves for just over 100pts, plus their Guardians and inherantly cool as you remind your opponent your races poets are more danagerous than his front line infantry
Plus if you pull your Serpent up just in front of the enemy advance the previous turn you may even get to charge as well and put those extra attacks to good use.
"ask not the Eldar a question, for he will give you three answers, all of which are true and terrifying to know"