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Having started up eldar again in 5th edition, i'm a little confused with the rules on sniper weapons, and how these rules interact with the eldar codex.
Without stating the specific rules (forum law), do i get the best of both worlds e.g. potential AP1 on the to-hit role AND potential rending on the to-wound roll? The faq for 5th was less than helpful in addressing this.
Secondly, do people find this more or less helpful? Having to use BS now is kinda a drag.
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(rep) Thanks so much. Good call on guide being more useful now... more re-rolls = more AP1's. Squads of 10 seem quite brutal now. It's good to have a troops choice that can shred a monstrous creature. Are you (Dekendo) or anybody else aware of anybody math-hammering pathfinders in 5th?
I use pathfinders as such. much hilarity against terminators and other troublesome units. (like nurgle anything)
that's honestly what i originally bought the darn things for anyhow, so this just means that i'm getting my money's worth on them.
plus they're troops so they can lurk objectives and fill ther role well.
A squad of 10 pathfinders killed 2.5 marines per turn in 4th edition. They gained ~225+ points for their 240 if they fired every turn.
A squad now kills 2.59 marines per turn in 5th edition. Not much better because of the BS loss trade for rending. That is ~250 points if they fire every round, but that has just as much to do with the price increase on marines and free weapons.
A squad killed 1.39 Terminators per round in 4th. ~333.33+ points at the end of the game.
They now kill 1.60 regular Terminators in 5th. Once again not that much better, but it ends up being 385.
You will probably see more Assault Terminators, though, and they only kill .80 of those. For a measly 192.59 points.
MCs will be identical to the Terminators as most have some sort of invul, and much better if they don't.
Unfortunately all of that is without cover, so pretty much half all of those numbers.
That gives us 1.3 marines, 1.04 Terminators, and .80 assault terminators. That's 125, 250, and 192 points respectively for a 6 turn game.
Here's the rub, a similarly costing squad of 8 fire dragons in a wave serpent will almost get back the same amount of points in one round (and definitely more in two rounds) that will take the pathfinders all 6 to do. In addition with the fact that terrain is directional in 5th the increased mobility the serpent offers means they can deny cover saves, not to mention the fact that they can kill tanks better if they have to (though, fire dragons are more suited for anti-infantry than anti tank).
The only upside is that they are troops, and can park themselves on an objective. So in the end, don't take them for killing power (it didn't get much better anyway), take them because they score and mostly because you like the theme. We have better, cheaper, faster scoring units anyway.
Hi there. Don't you think that regular troops are rather poor target in comparison to MCs?
Wow frozencore, ask and yes shall receive! Thanks for the stats. I like your comparison to fire dragons, as it provides some scope over the course of the game. Given that the pathfinders killing power is fair, but not great, my assumption is i'm better off taking a squad of 5 or 6 in cover on an objective, rather than an entire 10.
As far as chosing troops vs MC's as targets, i'd be very curious on the Ld of my targets. Pinning a squad of fire warriors is a glorious thing. Most MC's have a high enough Ld that the pinning won't likely come into play. Generally, though, i've used the fire on MC's, or mopping up any targets left over from the fire of my other units.
Pinning Fire Warriors? Are you Crazy? Most Crisis and Broadsides do not have Great Goo.. I mean leadership.
Last edited by frozencore; March 22nd, 2009 at 18:42.