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Hey guys. I need some help dealing with marines. So far I can usually beat my marine friend in 1000 pt games, but I had a lot of trouble yesterday when his friend joined in. We played a 2000 point game with each of them controlling 1000 points of marines and I had 2000 points of Tyranids (they were split into two FOCs because my other friend was gonna play the other half but he couldn't make it). So, basically, they wiped out my army and I managed to kill only a whopping 4 scout bikes.
I had three broods of 16 WoN termagaunts, 4 broods of 3 warriors with scything talon/deathspitter, two ninjafex's, a dakkafex, 3 zoanthropes with psychic scream and warp blast, 3 broods of genes with scuttlers/flesh hooks/acid maw, and a broodlord with a few upgrades and a retinue with the same kit as the normal genes + extended carapace.
They together ran 2 librarians, 4 tac squads with missile launchers, 6 dreads with basic layout, a razorback with a heavy bolter, 4 scout bikers: 3 with grenade launchers, and a land raider crusader.
My basic plan was to run everything up and try to get the fexes into combat with the land raider while the zoanthropes blew up the dreadnoughts. I split my force into a main wave with all the fexes, 2/3 of the gaunts, half the warriors, and 2 zoans and put the rest in a flank attack that should rush up and overwhelm his flank while my main wave crashed into him. Didn't happen. His assault cannons shredded my gaunts in short order, leaving one of each brood alive so they didn't come back then ripped the rest of my forces to pieces. They were all more than 18" from the board edge so that if my genestealers entered they would get blown to pieces.
They got a couple turns of shooting before my zoanthropes were in range, and they missed with all of the warp blasts except one, which rolled a 1 on the armor penetration roll.
I managed to kill his scout bike squad that had been wreaking havoc with their grenade launchers by scuttling some genestealers on top of them on turn 2 because he accidentally put them too close to the board edge. By that time I was down to about half of my warriors, two fexes, and 2 zoanthropes, and I was still about 2 turns of running from getting my fexes into combat. It was bad.
So, do you guys have any advice what I should do differently in terms of tactics or army composition? Any advice is greatly appreciated.
I think a flyrant would have done you greatly, and your lack of sniper fexs hurt you because 8 pieces of armor is tough to deal with.
I also think acid maw is a huge waste-o'points...Feeder tendrils are better, and cost less. Also I am not a fan of EC on stealer (or scuttlers for the most part...maybe on a unit or two). I think you need to keep them cheap, and run them behind your gaunts. Then people need to choose which to kill (and because I don't use WoN) people normally try for the gaunts first and then a few stealers get there and do some damage. (PS you can't have both acid maw and flesh hooks)
For the most part Ninja fexes are not as effective as Dakka fexes, which are not as effecitve as Dakka Tyrants which are all in the 120 point range...If you move up the chain you will be better off. Also all of your MC were short ranged and they just blasted you from range. Did they know what you were going to bring and you not know what they were bringing? It seems like they brought a list that really had your number.
I think your big problem was that you tried to outflank a shooting army that is small enough to sit in the middle of the board and wait for you to come in. That really is a receipe for disaster especially if you don't have anything fast to tie up the enemies shooters with. For one more point each you could have had hormigaunts (instead of a brood of Termagents) behind your WoN gaunts, giving you a save and threatening to tie up your enemy.
That is bad luck with the Zoans (I also have bad luck with Zoans, so much so that I never use them...ever, but that is just me.)
Neither of us knew what the other one would bring, so they just loaded up on as many shots as possible. I hadn't counted on so many armored targets or else I would've considered some more serious anti-tank. And that's good advice about the dakkarant, I hadn't really thought about that.
I agree that stealers should be run cheap, and I only gave the broodlord retinue EC in order to protect him a bit more from bolters. I'll definitely drop the acid maw next time and possibly the scuttlers.
Thanks for the input, highly appreciated.
Your list was ok. The biggest problem is all the worthless upgrades you gave your stealers. Also, i have learned that zonathrops are not good enough as anti tank to ever give them Warp Blast anymore. I think you biggest problem is that you have too many points in things that are not going to benifet you in the long run.
Your biggest problem was that they didn't use their rules correctly. They couldn't of had 6 Dreadnoughts as they didn't have a master of the forge. That and even if they did use their list right they were using a very good list against you.
Army's used: Space Wolves, Tomb Kings, High Elves, Tyranids, Tau and Eldar.
It sounds to me like your target selection was a bit bad actually, for example the zoans. they are one of a few units in our list that can lay down some nasty damage on marines from ranged. however, you shot them at a target that only has a 1/3 chance to be killed off. If youd shot the marines, you could have killed about 4-8 fairly easily. also the zoans second powerwas a bit pointless actually, because the marines can rally, or even fall out of combat on their own. I think zoans can be very good, just not as tank busters. In future, give them synapse and use them on infantry squads. But realy with 6 dreads you didnt have a lot of hope anyway, the only things that might kill them off are the broodlord and stealers and the fexs, which would have been sqaushed by the dreads initative. I also presume that they had lascannons or some other ap 2/1 weapon, so that would also have hurt your MC's badly. as a last point, i dont know whether you did or not, but taking extended carapace on your fexs ect, is a big help vs this sort of list, as those ap3 missiles are far less effective on them
Fair enough with the two Lists thing. I wouldn't have allowed my opponents to do that though. Also I know that Warp Blast is great for killing marines however i still wouldn't take it.
Army's used: Space Wolves, Tomb Kings, High Elves, Tyranids, Tau and Eldar.
warp blast is brilliant, and I love it. The best way to kill marines is to deny them their saves, and WB is awesome for that. Rending attacks (stealers) are good too. But, failing that, force them to take as many saves as possible... dakkafexes and dakkarants are excellent for that.
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Give the Genestealers Extended Carapace and Feeder Tendrils instead of what they currently have, probably also flesh hooks. The estra survibability is important, and the change from armor 5+ to 4+ is huge against MEQ armies. Flesh hooks are great if you play with lots of cover, and you might even be able to benefit from their climbing ability. If you need to make them more expensive (for example, you don't have enough minis to play otherwise), give them scything talons.
from the topic description, it looks like both teams used 2 seperate armies, nids included. If niether of you knew what the other was bringing, then they just happened to pick a list that had enough guns to gun you down.
your zoans should have been blasting his troops like the others said, and getting a fex into close combat was your only real hope of killing those dreads. Im not sure there was much you could do besides bringing some lictors or a flyrant to tie up some units while your genestealers came in.