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My friend has a Bood Angels list that, against my Tau, no matter what I try, simply annihilates me. Heres what he brings
-Lemartes, jumpjet chappie character (as-is)
-Death Company- 5 men (Bolt Pistol/CCW/jumpjets)
-Furioso Dreadnaught (Venerable, Death Company, Ext Armor, Hvy Flamer, DROP POD)
-10 Assault Marines (Sgt w/ Powerfist)
-10 Assault Marines (Sgt w/ Powerfist)
-10 Assault Marines (Sgt w/ Powerfist)
- Baal Predator (hvy bolters)
- Vindicator (stock)
So, yeah.. I totally hate him. The way the games usually go is: My railguns wipe out his tanks, all of his jumpjet monsters jump 12" then run d6"... I get one desparate round of troop fire, and they assault me, even in the back end of my deployment zone. (thats the way it went: pitched battle 12" in, 12'+d6"[rolled a 5-6 mostly], then 12"+6" assault= anywhere on the table)
As things degrade from this point, the Dread inevitably arrives, with a flamer template in just the worst possible place- you get the idea.. hehe.
How can I tactically engage such a fast, shredding monster? I guess hiding in devilfishes, who canNOT move flat out to be harder to hit. Fletchettes take a share, but never enough, etc.
A quick rundown of my tau collection to give you a hint at what to work with, I own:
1 commander suit
12 crisis suits
4 pathfinder snipers
16 or so versa drones (gun/marker/shield)
4 versa-tanks (devilfish/hammerhead)
2 sniper teams
.. its a reasonably filled out collection to work with, short only in tank/transport hulls, I guess.
The problem I face is if I go heavy anti-meq weaponry/units (which happen to all be anything BUT scoring troops units), I hurt myself on 2/3rds of the scenarios, where all the enemy has to do is kill the two troop choices I take to prevent me from having any possibility of winning... and if I go heavy troops.. yup I deny myself the anti meq weaponry I truly need! Its damn frustrating that the only scoring units I can take have NO options for anti meq weaponry! ARGH!
So, This is a discussion of how Tau can engage and fight such a force. We can discuss tactical approaches, list compositions, etc. Keep in mind that 2/3 of the time, objectives need to be held/controlled, and this Tau is stumped as how to defend such objectives from those slavering, vampiricly tainted bloodthirsty (quite literally) Smurfs!!
An elementary particle of the lepton family, having a mass about 3,550 times that of the electron, a negative electric charge, and a mean lifetime of 3 x 10-13 seconds in close combat.
The main problem you are facing is that you have to take down 30 MEQ guys in 2 turns. Thats 15 MEQ a turn on average. Which means you NEED SERIOUS anti MEQ... or you lose against this list.
In fact this list seems to be tailor made to beat a Tau army
And who says that if you go heavy on MEQ you'll lose 2/3 situations.
You can get 2 or 3 units of fire warriors and go heavy anti MEQ at the same time.
Last edited by Sandro17; March 28th, 2009 at 06:53.
Keep your firewarriors mounted in devilfishes and get them flechette dischargers to discourage assaulting the vehicles.
Change is good
Well 1st thing is target priority, do not target the vehicles unless they are a serious and imminent threat. You need to be targeting the assault and Death company squads.
1500pts is a difficult points level to get the stuff you need here. Your main problem is you need to take out 36 fast Marines and to do this you will need Markerlights and lots of firepower.
Overloading on XV8 suits is not going to help to much as the dude does not have that much armour so you need to concentrate on putting massed fire power into the assault marines and also having something to handle the inevitable assault. Unfortunately for you you lack the one thing that could help 'Kroot Hounds'. A unit of 10 Kroot and 8 Hounds can seriously damage an assault unit (they will average 4 kills per turn on the charge) and they have another serious advantage 'infiltrate'.
I am not advising you get ultra close using infiltrate, rather I am advising using it to gain advantageous field position for the Kroot. He has nothing that infiltrates so when he sets up you have the advantage of placing the cheap and effective Kroot squads to intercept his units when they run down the field.
So I am going to advise based on two units of Kroot with Hounds (10 and 8 respectively) if you like this advice then buy, proxy, steal or beg for the extra Hounds )
Two units of Fire Warriors in Devilfish will help. He cannot get into assault 1st turn (even if he goes first) and you need to use this to your advantage. You have a 30" range on Pulse rifles so set up the Fire Warriors out of the DF when deploying and make sure you are in range of at least one unit. Make sure the Kroot are within 24" so they can shoot as well.
If he gets 1st turn and runs he will more than likely go for the Kroot (he will believe he can take the unit and will believe you will not charge). Your turn shoot the unit with the Fire Warriors and anything else in range and if close enough charge with the Kroot and Hounds. The Hounds INT5 will ensure that at least some of the BA's are killed before they hit and the Kroot will have lots of attacks left to contribute. With luck you will cause more wounds and have a good chance of wiping out the unit.
If you get 1st turn pour as much fire power as you can into the units and make sure the Kroot are between the BA's and the Fire Warriors. If he attacks the Kroot he will have an unexpectedly hard CC battle on his hands and if he bypasses them to get tot he FW unit the Devilfish will provide protection and he has left his assault squad open to cross fire and assault by the Kroot.
That is what I would do. So we have two 118pts Kroot units and two 10 man FW squads (with BK) in Devilfish. I would also take a small 6 man squad with Ui and Marker light with HW target lock. The idea behind this is to put the FW squad on an objective in cover and ML, this will also mean the BA player has to contend with more targets.
The above costs around 720pts which leaves you with 780pts or there about. I would advise against anything that cannot move fast, this rules out Sniper Drones and XV88's.
You need a Commander and I would just advise a straight 97pt Fireknife El. He can contribute towards taking down the armour and his Plasma can help with the Marines.
Next I would advise two Hammerheads, Railhead 165pts each (you know the set up) use them for the Subs first and try to take down the vehicles later.
Deathrain squad (2 man with Tleader with HW target lock) anti vehicle, anti Dread and can then help take down the assault marines 116pts.
Now here is the contentious bit 'Pathfinders' You need Markerlights but you do not need a big squad of PF's. You need Devil fish for the Fire Warriors, so I would go for two 4 man teams of PF's deploy them in cover as wide apart from each other as is humanly possible and place the DF near the FW units. The good thing having two units is the opponent has to deal with more units and he has to decide whether to take the Pathfinders first or the FW's.
The PF can also be used to bait the Assault squads.
So we have
1 Shas'El Fireknife 97pts
Deathrain squad with team leader with HW target lock 116pts
2 squads of 10 Fire Warriors with Ui and bonding knife 115pts each
2 Kroot squads (10 Kroot and 8 Hounds) 118pts each
1 squad of 6 Fire Warriors with Ui with ML and HW target lock and BK 90pts
2 squads of 4 Pathfinders 96pts total
2 Devilfish with Frags and DP's 190pts total (used for FW squads)
2 Hammerheads RG, BC, Multi and DP's 330pts total
1385pts which leaves 115pts
Now this is up to you and how you want to play the list. I have tailored the list above to deal with the assault squads. It does this by having multiple targets for the BA player to deal with and by having the Marker lights to aid BS (three units can be Marker lit a turn) and by having the Kroot to handle assaults (which they can do nicely). The list also has enough anti armour.
So you could take another Shas'El maybe Helios to add some punch (97pts) this would be useful as it gives the BA player yet another target to consider and it can handle any target including the Dread).
You could go for an 8 strong Vespid squad (lose a FW or Kroot hound to find the extra few points needed). These can be used to back up the Kroot squads and do have the advantage of AP3 weaponry. You would need to be extremely careful using these though and they should never be used without back up from other units. Eiglepulper seems to have a bit of accrued knowledge of how to use these with Kroot so maybe PM him if you do take them.
The other choice is a Fusion Piranha which could really help by distracting the BA player by attacking the armour or it can be used as a fast reinforcement unit to help any unit. It can also be used for last minute objective contesting.
A tip the Dread has to move towards any Tau unit nearest to it (Death company Dread) unless a Chaplain is within 6". Disembark the vehicles Gun Drones (DF and Piranha if you take it) and use them to bait the Dread, works like a dream if done correctly.
Of course the ideas above hinge on Kroot hounds (remember beg, borrow, steal or proxy) but the list also works by providing a lot of units for the BA player to deal with. It has MLights to help with taking down the BA's and the Kroot are the key to the assault side of things.
The list has enough anti armour but you should use the Hammerheads subs on the assault squads for the first few turns .
The Piranha or the Shas'El would be my choice for the last few points.
The Fire Warriors can fire for the first turn but they are better of in the DF from turn two. You can FOF if needed but you can also keep them safe in the DF if the mission warrants it (objective based missions).
A list like his is never going to be easy to beat and ideas like Ninja Tau rarely work out as they should. My ideas are basically to provide lots of targets for the BA player, which means he cannot take down the army fast. I have provided him with multiple threats to consider (Path finders, able Kroot squads, hammerheads, Fire Warriors, Shas'El and Deathrains hitting his vehicles etc etc). The Kroot mean that you have at least a favourable chance of surviving some assaults and the Hounds will damage any squad that hit them.
I hope I have given you at least a bit of help and some ideas but jeeezzz I hate 1500pts games.
Last edited by Rikimaru; March 28th, 2009 at 14:15.
Dude i would want to fight this guy with my list. It´d be a real challenge but i think i could take him, i´ve faced similiart lists with good results.
Now for some advice. An Ionhammer would serve you well since assault marines usually stay out of cover to avoid dangerous terranin tests. Same goes for sniper drones and pathfinders with rail rifles, tought these units are vulnerable to assault marines since they cant move and fire. Kroots are a good choice perhaps adding a few krootox for extra combat power. I think pinning is the way to go. Use markerligts to lower the leadership of one unit and hit them with railrifles, then fire everything you´ve got at another unit, assault with kroots if possible. Then you can possibly neutralise two units in a turn. Leaving the Dc and another assault squad left. Use plasma suits against DC and try to pin one unit of assault marines each turn.
My suggested list.
Fireknife Shas el
2 Fireknife crisis
10 Kroot 5 hounds 2 krootox
6 pathfinders Devilfish
6 pathfinders 3 railrifles Devilfish
2 Sniper drone squads