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Hey all. I was basically curious as to how people equip their archon, what role they use it for, and whether they use dracons or homunculi instead.
I always used the setup of agoniser, pistol, xenospasm, drugs, shadowfield, plasma grenades generally. Now I've considered giving her a tormentor helm and punisher for more efficiency against regular troops - wounding marines on 4 anyway, but nicer to wound GEQ's on 3+. Also, with the drugs I can boost strength for really making sure they go down.
My general tactic is to put her with a footslogging warrior squad and move up flanks, before leaping off when I've reached a suitable vantage point to assault stuff. On her own it's risky, but she's easier to hide, and a retinue is a kill point extra. Plus, the retinue could cause her to fall back should enough be killed by shooting/CC.
I've also considered putting her on a hellion skyboard, so that she can make a more effective leap from the warriors she starts with, and will also gain a slightly better armour save should her shadowfield break. Would a jetbike also be worthwhile? Expensive, but it makes her harder to hurt and the punisher much nastier. I'd still keep her with the warrior squad, as with a reaver squad the low numbers could force leadership tests for losses, and they're quite hard to hide at times. Is my thinking ok on this? Please let me know what you think!
P.S. Generally my Archon here is being used to go troop hunting. I've decided against MC-attacking, as one failed save is all it really takes.
I don't field an Archon anymore.
But I do field a Dracon with Punisher, Helm, Combat Drugs, and Animus Vitae! No Shadow Field though, because he runs with a retinue of 4x Incubi and 3x Warrior. No matter how my DE Lord is outfitted though, he will ALWAYS be on a Raider transport.
If she's on foot? Agonizer, poisoned blades, tormentor helm. (Plus whatever other goodies). This gives you options. Assault some marines with tough armor? Use the agonizer, (and the t-helm to get the +1 attack bonus that you cannot get with the p-blades). If you're assaulting something with an invulnerable save, warlocks, daemons, etc, the poisoned blades come in handy. It makes your character a lot more versatile.
If you're on a bike though, the new rules allowing you to wield a punisher are too good to pass up!
[...] So I burst into his office and exclaimed, quite frankly, "That's Numberwang." As I recall it, he cried.
Krovin pretty much has it, except I personally prefer the Archon over the Dracon in everything above 750 points.
I throw my HQ setups out there:
Archons/Archites go solo (no retinue) with punisher, t-helm, drugs, field, plasma, t-rack and animus vitae. They mostly ride with wyches in almost every case.
My feeling here is that the Archon/Archite role is to go where the heavy hitters are and join the wych squad that is going to tackle them. If there is a super enemy HQ then I will also put the Dracon/Dracite in the squad as well (or put the Archon in with the Dracon and Incubi). I find this extremely flexible and allows my Archon/Archite to ride shot-gun with the squad they are with or use it as a "launching pad". As far as the list is concerned I do not rely solely on the HQ to "carry the team" so if he does die I usually have other CC units in the list to carry on without.
I also want to say that I prefer they do not use a bike or skyboard as I think it removes some flexibility on how they work in the list and I would rather have a 12" charge than a 12" move. I know bikes are such the "rave" right now but even with a punisher I still don't use them.
If I take a Dracon with an Archon then its an agoniser Dracon riding with Incubi. Dracon has aggy, pistol, plasma, drugs & t-helm.
This unit may be accompanied by the Archon but in all my lists that contain Incubi there is a wych squad and the Archon can go in either one. The Dracon & Incubi are strictly looking for "rank and file" troop choices first, fancy elites second.
If I take a Dracite with an Archon then its an agoniser Dracite riding with Wyches. Dracite has the same as Dracon.
This a very popular build for both Kabal and Cult. The Dracite will mainly stay with wych squad it is assigned with and this squad is looking for a good fight. Almost sacrificial in nature the Dracite makes bold moves and gives the wych squad that extra hit that should break its target's back just in the charge. I am not looking for a prolonged fight but going into the next players turn is usually what happens. I often find that the wyches with a Dracite will often leave 2 or 3 marines after a charge and they finish in the next players turn - perfect!
If I go Coven then its a different ball game completely.
1 Haemy is the Master and has Destructor, scissor, drugs, field, t-rack and mostly a bike
Not a whole lot of luck with this guy - he often gets the first shot and then finds himself charging in. He often dies in the first close combat and that is my problem. I do find him too expensive for what he does and have made lists stripping him down to a normal Haemy. I will say though he is one "bad mutha" on a bike and very cool.
1 Haemy follows the Master on a sky board with the same stuff except no field.
This guy also gets one shot off before dieing as he usually joins the biker Haemy into CC - big mistake! I have deepstriked him a couple times but as all opponents do they "freak" when they see a bike or skyboard. I think the record survival time with this guy is dead by the 2nd turn.
2 Haemys are usually in a grotesque squad on a raider. Haemy might have drugs but definitely has destructor, scissorhand and t-rack.
This is a set-up from 4th edition that still works in 5th. They have surprised me in close combat many times and I find that the more I throw them into close combat the better they do. The goal of this unit is not CC however, it is to line up cross-firing destructor templates and I can usually get one in each game so I still use it frequently. One haemy leads the grotesques and the other has the option to leave whenever. Sometimes when the grotesque squad gets too small (like 3 or less) the Haemys will abandon them (hopefully in cover at an objective).
And the remaining 2 Haemys ride separately in 2 different Raider Squads. Raider squads have 8 men with blaster and cannon. Sybarite has agoniser and either xenospasm or the Archangel of Pain. Raiders have lances and horrorfex's.
I really, really like the symetry of this unit - they absolutely compliment each other as I use the Raider Squad as a fire base first and foremost. The Haemy's destructor really gives the unit a huge "punch" in the shooting phase and the addtitional poison blade attacks boosts the CC with an extra dead marine or two. The Haemy would ideally have drugs and a t-rack but both of those are purely for defensive purposes. There have been several games so far that this combo has ripped apart a marine squad to the point that they can easily finish them off in a charge. In one game I used them against a Nurgle marine squad and the amount of fire and CC brought them down to 2 nurgle marines when it was their turn. I think this is what DE is all about and I use this combo 50% of the time (I usually go back and forth between playing a Wych Cult and a Kabal/Coven list).
Lately, I have been making Coven lists that do not use a Haemy on a bike or skyboard which allows the them to ride with 2 more Raider Squads. As for Kabal list I am starting to use a Dracon with Incubi instead of 3 haemys riding with Raider Squads - this is just the trend I am experimenting with lately, nothing set in stone.
"On a hunch, I melted them down and inhaled the fumes and read the dark eldar codex again, AND FOUND A BUNCH OF NEW RULES HIDDEN BEHIND THE OTHER WORDS..." [Gardeth on modelling & interpreting the DE Codex]
- Splinter Rifles
I don't see why one couldn't do the Punisher + Poisoned Blades + Tormentor Helm combo though. In fact, I'm going to make 5 points available for that right now.
Last edited by Krovin-Rezh; April 4th, 2009 at 02:18.
Am I mistaken in thinking that you can't get the benefit of 2 CCW with Poisoned Blades?
My setup is generally a cheap Dracon with an agonizer and drugs (very stripped down) riding with a Raider Squad. Everything in my army is generally mounted, so everything just flies around and harasses things. The inevitable Ravager destruction really helps too.
The Dracon and his Raider Squad can hop out and put down some CC pain on anything remaining and makes a good objective denier. Come to think of it, I should just throw down some Haemies. Kwi, you may have converted me.
The second punch comes about with my Jetbike mounted Archon, with a Punisher. He rides along with a small Jetbike unit, also packing a punisher, as well as a blaster, all with Haywire grenades too. These guys move fast and hit ridiculously hard. Plus, they've slagged more than their share of tanks. This isn't that expensive of a unit, but shakes up the enemy well enough for the rest of the army to really drive home the pain.
The armory does say at the top you can have two single handed weapons or a single-handed and two-handed weapon...so the tormentor helm gets around this problem, giving you the extra attack with the agoniser and letting you take poison blades in case the invulnerable thingy turns up.
Is a lone Footslogging archon a good idea? Recently I've been putting her with squads of warriors and darting between them as safety zones until she can lunge out alone with 12" to shred a squad with punisher, drugs, etc, and then consolidate into cover - which is easy, as she's small enough to comfortably hide out of LoS - or if it's a 2-turn combat, then lunge at another squad. Seemed to work well today, but she got in sight of one marine squad (which was ok considering there were roughly 40 or so marines in this 1000 point list!) which managed to wound three times with bolters, then I failed myfirst shadowfield save. So... yeah. Bit one-off I thought, so worth another go.
Wow I haven't posted in forever.
Okay to topic, usually if I take an Archon it is in large point battles were I am just stretching to make points. If I have that setup the Archon has a punisher, T-helm, Drugs and either a trophy rack or Terrorfex. I boat him and about 5 Incubi up in a Raider and pray that it doesn't get shot down before dumping them out.
I know it is a points sink, but I am sort of maxing out with what I have.
If I am not just wasting points I will usually take a Dracon with an agoniser, splinter pistol and drugs. He goes with the Incubi. I have found that my friends hate either of these squads. Once they hit combat they usually will almost wipe out whoever they are facing.
Smaller battles or if I don't want to use Incubi I take an Archon that is loaded for bear with an agoniser, drugs and pistol. Put him with a raider squad and away he goes to slash up the town!
Question; what do you guys think of putting an Archon on a jetbike? I have been out of warhammer for a while and am going to have a battle soon. Do you think it is too much of a points sink? I don't believe the battle will be huge, but I have some reavers to fly with him and was wondering if a flying Archon is worth it.
Prey they don't take you alive