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Hi, this is my first post and so i kindly ask you to correct me if i break any rules.
Me and a friend of mine started playing 40k a couple of months ago. Were both new to the rules and so on even tho im an old fantasy player.
Im having problems with beating his Space marines so i could use some help from more experienced players.
He is usually running:
Vindicator (most imba thing ever?)
Tacticals with rhino
Sternguard in drop pod.
2xHeroic intervention vanguards
1 or 2 squads of termies (assault and regular termies usually).
a 3 man squad of scout bikers with grenades
HQ usually differs, sometimes Librarian or last couple of games hes been going with a couple of special characters (perdo and lysander).
Exarch on jetbike
1 Wave serpent
1 Fire prism
1 Wraith lord
3 War walkers
10 Wraith guards
10 dire avengers
5 warp spiders
5 striking scorpions
5 dark reapers
6 howling banshees
3 Bright lances (or whatever those jetbike dudes are called)
6 fire dragons
5 swooping hawks
Something like that.
The worst thing is that if he gets the first round he can destroy me pretty bad.
We usually run 2000p battles.
What do i do about that god damned vindicator. How to avoid deep striking destroyers of doom? How do i make my banshees suck less against tacticals and so on?
sorry i dont have time to make a long post, someone else will have to get down to the nitty gritty details, but in essence, your army seems pretty disorganized. By that I mean that you basically have a mish mash of everything, try developing a more focused and coherent force, e.g.
A little bit of my own advice, war walkers with scatter lasers work great against basically everything. Make his sternguard or vanguards take a lot of armor saves and they will fall guaranteed.
The Hand that guides.
DARK REAPERS DARK REAPERS DARK REAPERS, I stand by these when fighting heavy footslogging MEQ, put in a Doomseer with a squad of 10 banshees as well you'll be able to reroll those pesky 3 STR wounds. Pop those vehicles as fast as you can and reap the harvest of footsloggy Marines.
A tip if you use Dark Reapers, put an objective in a nice empty part of the board without lots of Cover, this should create a Firing lane if you will, put your Dark reapers in a nice little piece of Terrain and shoot from 48' away.
I find that Warpspiders help against Deepstrikers, if you want those vehicles to go down get a group of 6 Firedragons and give them a Falcon or a Waveserpent.
Last edited by Trask; April 6th, 2009 at 23:15.
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Yeah, well, i just started out playing eldar and so i wanted to get a bit of everything to try out.
I havnt tried the warwalkers yet but im pretty hyped to see what they can do.
Their weapons arent twin linked huh? So two starcannons would be pretty nifty right?
Ill look into getting a bit more mechy and see how it goes
Banshees should be rocking just about any marine unit they charge (stormshield assault termies being one of the few exceptions). Doom will make them extra deadly. If you are failing to win on the charge I'm not sure what to say. A second prism would let you link shots for AP 3 goodness (maybe you can proxy the falcon as one for a few games to try it out ). Remember Most of our units will beat marines at their specialty but lose to them in anything else play to our strengths.
With deepstrike being less risky than it used to be I'm seeing alot more of it also. Best I can say is keep units you need safe, by having other units around them. And counter attack the deepstrikers, If they shot they are in a nice template bunch, if they didn't shoot then they didn't hurt you the round they came down.
The vindicator only has a 24" range you will often have a round or two of ranged shooting before it starts dropping templates on you. Shoot it up or move away from it to limit the damage it causes you.
Perhaps you could roll out an all mech force, it seems like several of his units are dropping down and frying/assaulting your infantry do his deepstrikers often carry AT weapons? If he is drop podding alot of units in you could start in reserve so you can avoid that first round of deep strikes and shooting.
If you're really worried about Deep Strikes, hold your army (at least the squishy parts) in reserve and have him go first. Going second is actually advantageous to Eldar as it allows us to have that last turn for grabbing crucial objectives. He'll end up Deep Striking half his army in with very little to shoot at, which means he either has to Deep Strike far away and have them trek across the board, or Deep Strike them close for whatever bait you have and die to your army as they come on the board.
In regards to Vindicators, if you're that worried, put 6 of those Wraithguards or the Fire Dragons on a Wave Serpent, Fortune it and run directly at the enemy tanks. They'll have a 4+ cover save, and if you manage to take out that Vindicator or Land Raider you'll have made up the cost of the unit (except for perhaps the Wraithguards).
I'm assuming by "Brightlances on Jetbikes" you mean Shining Spears. Fortune them up, charge them at a Vindicator and voila, strength 6 attacks on rear armour.
Ever since I started playing Guard, I've started using my Eldar like I do Guard - I find that it works quite well, suprisingly lol.
"ACCURACY BY VOLUME!!!"
3 Warwalkers with 2 Scatter Lasers each combined with Doom/Guide and he'll be rolling more dice than he can saves.
Dire Avengers (Exarch with 2x Shuriken Catapults and Bladestorm) inside a Waveserpent with lots of shootyness tends to work alright.
Even a few squads of Guardians work well - even more so with the weapon platform popping out alot of shots is always good fun lol.
But that's just m - and it doesn't always work, but by god it's fun.
Of course you can also start ramming his vehicles...Eldar Falcons are pretty good at becoming Str 10.........
I like my women how I like my coffee! In a plastic cup! - Eddie Izzard
For 3+ armor saves the answer is simple friend:
-Dark Reapers (5)
-Exarch-Tempest Launcher w/ Fast Shot and Crack Shot
-Attack Farseer or Eldrad, whichever you prefer.
That is 36" range on a barrage weapon, which is AP3, and with Crack Shot denies cover so it doesn't matter if there is cover or not. If Marines aren't in combat with you they die in droves. Especially with the new rules on allocating wounds via templates. You should be dropping a "torrent of fire" on top of a squad a turn without any problems, and that is only the Exarch.
Drop Guide on the squad from the Farseer/Eldrad and you suddenly make those templates twice as deadly.
Drop Fortune on them and you have a squad that can withstand rediculous amounts of firepower with a 3+ Armor Save.
Place them near the middle of your line to protect them from outflanks and also to force the Marine player to deal with your WHOLE army to deal with the one squad that is EASILY removing one squad a turn.
Seriously, take a good look at the Barrage, wounds done by templates, and the re rolls for scatter dice rules and look at the monster that is the entry.
TIP: If Marines are in the open then drop a Fast Shot on them as it gives you another template. If they are hugging cover in an attempt to save their hides drop a Crack Shot on their head denying them their cover AND armor saves WITH rerolls to wound. Seriously...
For 2+ armor saves:
2 Fire Prisms
With the new Storm Shield, in all it's ridiculous glory, requires luck to remove. The best way to deal with them is volume of firepower. That is about all you can hope for with those monsters coming across the field. I have played with and against the new Assault Termies and that is all I can come up with.
With 2 Fire Prisms you can drop templates all over their heads and almost ensure that each Assault Termie will have to take an invulnerable save every turn. With mixed Assault Termie squads (ie, a mix between Lightning Claws and Thunder Hammers) will start to fall apart fairly quick as 5++ saves are just not going to hold up to the whithering fire power you are going to be placing on them.
If they are completely decked out w/ Thunder Hammers then I would still deal with them the same way. You might have to feed them sacrificial squads such as guardians or maybe your dire avengers. The best squad for this job is the closest squad to the threat that has the least battlefield value to you from that point till the end of the battle. You have to treat them like IG and Tau treat Orks, or any other close combat oriented army. They throw a sacrificial squad and force the opponent to sweeping advance into fire lanes where they face focused fire. If if doesn't succeed the first try then throw another squad at them.
Just buy as many turns as you can for your Fire Prisms to drop as many AP2 Templates on their skulls as possible.
Last edited by Kej; April 7th, 2009 at 08:07.
Ah, I see your problem, not enough guardians!
But putting my own personal bias aside there's a few things to remember. His elites are all classic marine deepstrikers, kill the drop pod and scout bikes early to disable his locator beacons, this will make his deep strikes much less accurate and make heroic intervention very dangerous.
Reapers as people have already said will mess up power armour very badly and add banshee's to the mix and they can even take down regular terminators. D-Cannon are also handy for this.
Assault termies require a different tact, this is why I mention guardians. 20 Guided guardians shooting at doomed termies will kill on average 4 in one round and finish the 5th one off when they charge, handy given terminator squad sizes no? Assault termies don't die to low AP guns, they die to save spams, massed catapult/Scatter laser is your friend here. Plus of course the advantage of guardians over Avengers is the addition of a heavy weapon for rhino cracking.
The last thing is that your friend seems rather short on scoring units, Sternguard if he takes Pedro, but otherwise it's just a couple of tac squads in rhino's. Hell with the right application of firepower you could probably table his scoring units in one round of shooting meaning that in 2/3 games he literally cannot win.
As for the Vindicator/Raider issue, Lances, several bright lances even if aimed by your trusty poet warriors will soon punch enough holes in his armour to stop them being a threat
One last thing, never be afraid to give ground, Eldar armies enjoy an almost unrivaled ability to fire on the move. If the distance or time isn't right for your attack then give ground, pound him with heavy weapons and wait a turn. Then you just have to pick your moment and deliver your hammer blow, because if you time it right that one punch should finish the fight.
"ask not the Eldar a question, for he will give you three answers, all of which are true and terrifying to know"
sorry for being silly, but what is a meq list all about?
(i really dont know, i just make balanced, CC or shooty lists)