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So i had an interesting situation with on of my usual gaming partners.
I had a walking hive tyrant with Tyrant guard behind some spineguants. He shot at it with a squad of Lascannons. After wounding with two he though that was that. I said that i got a cover save from the guants. He disagreed as my Hive Tyrant a MC was no 50% obscured by the squad. I countered that my Tyrand Guard were.
This is were the debate goes to you guys. I've been playing nids for a while but am not sure if i was right with 5th ed. I think that the shield rule applyed here and he can't pick out my MC like that. He says he can as i 5th ed it specified about the MC needing to me 50% obscured. What do you think?
Army's used: Space Wolves, Tomb Kings, High Elves, Tyranids, Tau and Eldar.
I'm pretty sure that as long as 50% of the Tyrant guard models are behind the spinegaunts, you can claim a cover save for the whole unit.
I think what happens is that your guard are in cover and your tyrant is not. So you have two models in cover and one that is not so the unit benefits from the cover save. I think you just count the MC like a normal model in the unit, except that for it to count as in cover more than 50% of it has to be covered up instead of the normal 1%. It seems over powered to me, but RAW seem to point that way if you read the section on partial cover, (if half or more of your unit is in cover your unit counts as in cover)so the Tyrant will likely be out of cover and the Guards will likely be in cover making more than half of your unit covered up.
The Tyrant cannot be chosen as a target as long as those Tyrant Guard are alive, and the Tyrant Guard are not MCs. The gaunts would give the Tyrant Guard the cover save, but not the Tyrant, but since it cannot be targeted, it doesnt really matter does it? Basically, no the Tyrant does not get the cover save, but since it is blocked by the Tyrant Guard, who are not MCs, and are behind a gaunt screen, they would get a cover save.
How can one part of a unit not get a cover save while the other part does Carniphalanx? That doesn't make sense game wise. We saw this earlier, and the consensus was that, as long as more than 50% of the unit is in cover the whole unit benefits from it. Thus because of the HT shieldwall rule, if you have two or more of his guard in cover, the guard and the Hive Tyrant all get cover saves. But if you have one guard, and the Hive Tyrant, then the only way to get a cover save is to have both of them in cover, as the rule needs over 50% of the squad in cover.
IIRC the rule actually reads "50% or more of the unit..." So, a Tyrant and one guard, with the guard in cover would get the cover save.
You are correct...I felt like this came up before, so now I'm going to have to go looking for it. Perhaps they had the HT trying to claim cover in the other thread, and that's what caused all the weird problems in that one. Thank you for correcting me on that one.
as long as you have two tyrant gaurd with your hive tyrant the unit as a whole gets a cover save so if three lascannons hit your tyrant and guard you could roll all three cover saves
but what if you have the 1 guard in cover and then the HT out of cover and you get shot with the lascannon shots, do all of them get the cover save or do you have to roll separately to see if any of the shots kill the guard, thus leaving the HT without cover for the remaining shots?
yes, this has been covered before, and yes you do get a cover save as long as 50% or more of the unit are in cover.
I got an official ruling from the GW Hobby Service in Australia (I'm in New Zealand and we piggy back off Oz) for a tournament and they've said as long as at least 50% get cover, then the whole unit gets cover (This is what the Tyrant Guard are designed for, protecting the Tyrant). What's more, the Tyrant can actually be completely in the open and still get a cover save if his guard are behind cover.
This may seem ridiculous, but it's the rules. Still doesn't make up for the crap wound allocation rules though. Rends should not be able to be doubled up...... oh well, maybe they'll get it right in 6th ed.