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I'm a few weeks in to my dark eldar restoration project, (stripping and repainting my deldar from like 8 years ago), and had another game last night vs space marines. The battle was 2,250, and everything went pretty well aside from leadership!
Every single troops choice I took had fled off the board by the end of the game. I could have still pulled a tie if the game had gone on to turn 6, but that's not important, lol. I don't remember leadership being a big deal for armies. However I found that larger squads, especially in a pitched battle, are difficult to place in such a way that they are:
-Not going to all die to blasts
-Far away enough from the edge that they won't fall off on the first fallback
So, long story short, two dreadnaughts landed right in the middle of my troops on the first turn. Heavy flamers and assault cannons! Owwy! Both of my sniper squads fled, and being below half strength, had no chance to redeem themselves. They will surely be executed for cowardace if we ever track them down.
In my turn, I managed to disable both of the dreadnaughts, but could not finish off the drop pods, so I still had two (rather massive) enemy models in the midst of my troops. The next turn of shooting caused another two squads to flee, and the droppods presence forced them to run away for good. The solution to this seemed to be to keep models in reserve more, and to not get out of a raider unless necessary, but those things are hard to keep in one piece!
Things I learned:
-Next time, ALWAYS take blasters in a sniper squad for just such an occasion.
-Large troop squads are nice, but not against dreadnaughts
-Hold as much in reserve as possible when fighting droppods
-Dreadnaughts are a MAJOR pain in combat. Assault marines, not so much. Two enemy assault squads and a force commander were happily torn apart, (and 7 of them captured! ), by troops arriving from reserve. Loads of fun.
Ouchies. A chaos player at our local store has a list which is pretty much undefeated in local tournaments. It includes 3 defilers, and 3 dreads. That's 6 walkers. Aside from taking a thousand dark lances, is there any other reliable way to get rid of those jerks?
Are there any tips or tricks you all use to keep large squads from getting scared and running off the board?
[...] So I burst into his office and exclaimed, quite frankly, "That's Numberwang." As I recall it, he cried.
@ Destroying Walkers - Blasters - 5 point mini dark lances are invaluable - my wyches managed to destroy a land raider using them. Or failing that haywire greandes
Sadly two things mess up DE for me is breaking and walkers. I have found when I loss big it is because one or both of those things were involved. All you can do is have a lot of redundency DL and Blasters.
You are going to break that is just a fact. That is why I tend to stay away from horde DE lists. Raider and Sniper squads are your best bet. Make your investment in DE about low point cost things that way if they die you have many more squads and you end up not crying as much
PS: Haywire does not work on Walkers.
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well imo DE is all about decent amount of troops that are actually good. I mean taking 4-6 warrior squads and the raiders ought to give enough fire power to klang those naughts out.
Havent really fought against pods but spreading your troops a bit there should be max 2 squads fleeing if it comes to worst and that would leave the rest of the army happily blasting in the next turn?
All standard missions allow you to place every single unit in reserve. If you design your army to move as fast as possible (all Raiders, Ravagers, Reavers, or Deep Striking), you can do this without incurring any real restrictions. This type of (non)deployment means you have several things going for you:
-Your forces will always be able to use at least one turn of actions before they become targeted.
-Your forces have a lot more flexibility in how they maneuver since they can arrive anywhere on your half of the board (or anywhere at all for Deep Strike). This helps not only with offense (getting in range with more weapons), but also defense (keeping out of range of more enemies).
-Your forces have a chance to Flat Out or Turbo Boost for cover before taking attacks, which gives them automatic cover and distance from their fall back edge.
-Lots of transports makes your army highly insusceptible to blasts early on.
And I have one other advantage of this, which is that you arrive later in the game. This really helps against other armies that like to use Deep Strike to mess things up, as is the case with those nasty Dreadnoughts! If you had used this strategy, those Drop Pods would have already dropped with nothing to shoot at. This works the same against any Deep Strike, although it's best to go 2nd to improve your chances.
Coming in later is also a double-edged sword, because you are always coming in at with only some of your units on turn 2. But that's not as bad as it seems, really. In objective missions, those turn 2 units can be your "first wave" that goes on a suicide mission to soften up key enemy forces as much as possible. With the offense of the DE, this can easily mean several units are totally destroyed! Then, when the rest of your units arrive, they will have an easier job ahead of them.
It also allows the opponent to move his forces forward uncontested. That's trouble in objective missions. But I've found that I often want them to move forward, as they are now within reach of all my incoming units if that's what I want to do. Close units = dead units. If they are a gunline army or similar that stays back and shoots, no big deal. Just Flat Out along a flank with everything that arrives. Your transports will have served their purpose if a few of them go down, since their squads of infantry are now very close to their targets.
I've written up a mini-tactica on this strategy, if you are interested in reading more about it.
Ravagers are also great. I don't like the tri-lance setup because it's of no use against other types of targets, but the two disintegrators and a dark lance seem to still be quite effective against most vehicles should the need arise.
The Talos could be good against Dreads in CC, but it is way too slow for my purposes and it's also unpredictable with it's number of attacks.
Haywires are only a good idea if you have everything you need with points to spare. They're good against most vehicles, but Dreads always require 6s to hit with grenades.
Agonisers will hit more often, but damage much less of the time, so they are not a good choice. You will probably have them anyway though, so it might be worth a shot if you don't have any other options.
I've found myself putting trophy racks on squads when I can, that extra leadership can help alot. As for keeping large squads around, I'm really not sure. I just went through a phase of using a ton of large footslogging warrior squads and after a few poor games against daemons (damn Tzeentch) I canned the idea.
Kabal of the Twilight Blade - Host of Tecpatl - Salamanders 3rd
While I love raider squads, I have a surplus of warriors. Do you think large squads on foot are viable at all?
I'm trying to rebuild this army out of dark eldar that I had years ago, and so at the moment I am low on vehicles, with loads of extra troops.
Any tips for using them? So far I've basically been giving them the max weapon allocation, and have them either sit on objectives, or run angrily at them. We are capable of putting down a startling number of troops. In my last few games, I think I had over 100 models on the board, which is something my opponents were not expecting at all.
[...] So I burst into his office and exclaimed, quite frankly, "That's Numberwang." As I recall it, he cried.
I’ve lost large 16 man squads to Drop Pod Dreads, teleporting Obliterators, teleporting flamers of Tzeentch, Thunder Cannons, Fire Prisms and whirlwinds. Seriously, I can’t find a good reason to take any foot slogging warrior squads unless you are going to have just one, starts in reserve and is only going to be used to claim the nearest objective – otherwise they are still “bait” asking to die.I tried that and it didn’t help. If whatever is suddenly in front of you your foot squad will die before the blasters will get a chance to fire. Even if they play a long range game, my squads died to firing before they ever got close to use the blasters. I don’t think get blasters for a “just-in-case” reason is going to work.-Next time, ALWAYS take blasters in a sniper squad for just such an occasion.and Obliterators and Flamers and Salamanders and thunderfire cannons and…-Large troop squads are nice, but not against dreadnaughtsI can deal with that. I might put something out as bait but it would have to be something like a warp beast squad or whatever. I am waiting for those other DE members that put everything on the table to chime in. I like using reserves but perhaps the “too many targets” approach might work here?-Hold as much in reserve as possible when fighting droppodsWait until you face venerable dreadnaughts. Assault troops are “wanna-be” wyches, I love seeing them.-Dreadnaughts are a MAJOR pain in combat. Assault marines, not so much. Two enemy assault squads and a force commander were happily torn apart, (and 7 of them captured! ), by troops arriving from reserve. Loads of fun.I haven’t seen that many walkers in a list before. Dunno what to tell you but I hate to say that you’d need a lot of dark matter. Get shooty and avoid them in CC, yuck!Ouchies. A chaos player at our local store has a list which is pretty much undefeated in local tournaments. It includes 3 defilers, and 3 dreads. That's 6 walkers. Aside from taking a thousand dark lances, is there any other reliable way to get rid of those jerks?Nope, they are sitting ducks and as squishy as they are they will be high on enemy priority lists because they are scoring or an easy kill point. I no longer use them but I’ve been playing wych cult a lot anyway.Are there any tips or tricks you all use to keep large squads from getting scared and running off the board?
I say this with respect so do not get me wrong. I think a 3-lance ravager is the best tank popper we got and I am yet to have found a game that didn’t have land raiders or dreadnaughts, or monstrous creatures or a artillary piece or a super HQ I needed dead. Surely one 3-lance ravager can earn its points just popping one of those! Just put in reserve, let the target get close (or pod in) and enter the game going <6” and take your chances that your 3 lance shots at least silences the target for a turn. Many a games I’ve had a 3-lance ravager be the MVP of the game. At least try it once, just one ravager is nice insurance.
My only beef with using disintegrators for armor are that the vehicles with low armor values don’t worry me – predators, ironclad dreadnaughts and anything AV12 are all examples of me wishing I had a 3 lance ravager in the list. Keep your 2 ravagers with 3 dissys in the list as I agree they are wonderful but you don’t need a 3rd one – the Dark Eldar army is geared for crowd control but they are not as geared for armor as nicely (I do not consider a lance and a blaster a solid anti-armor solution).
Just wait for the new IG codex – you are going to see squadrons upon squadrons of armor that you are going to wish you could throw 3 lance shots at.
Talos are very unpredictable! I wouldn’t do it at all unless I had 2 Talos charging the same Dread other wise the Dreadnaught will eventually win.
Per the Haywire description our Haywires can not be used against Dreadnaughts unless the Dreadnaught is already “immobilized”. Our codex trumps the BRB and thus you will have to wait to immobilize it first in order to use haywires.
I did destroy one once in 4th edition but all I ever did in 5th was stun or shake them and make them lose an attack – that’s it, I’d avoid this situation. I think shooting armor is the only solution at this point until we get a new codex.
"On a hunch, I melted them down and inhaled the fumes and read the dark eldar codex again, AND FOUND A BUNCH OF NEW RULES HIDDEN BEHIND THE OTHER WORDS..." [Gardeth on modelling & interpreting the DE Codex]
If you won't add vehicles to your army, I encourage you to think outside the box. Try out extreme strategies. Perhaps you're better off sinking lots of points into other units for offense and drawing fire while cheap Warrior Squads try to sneak in behind the main force unnoticed. Maybe you should keep all your Warriors in reserve and focus on contesting all the other objectives that aren't close to your board edge. These strategies are risky, but they're not nearly as risky as presenting a bunch of 20-man squads that die at the mere mention of flamers & rapid fire.
Hmm, that's interesting... I'm on the Tyranid Hive a lot, being a Tyranid player as well as a DE player, and someone there posted about the problem they've been having with their nids against that exact same Chaos Walker list. Must be the same guy, he mentioned a DE player there too...
But yeah, DE have big problems with walkers. I always take 2 blasters in my warrior squads, just far too useful. Instant marine pop and can mess up any vehicle, particularly walkers, who can do severe damage in CC. I even put them on jetbikes to be sure.
As for leadership, normally you should be ok - you only take one test per shooting phase when shot at, and at ld8 you're more likely to pass than to fail. Try to use more area terrain to get more cover saves and spread out a bit to minimise template damage and deep strike accuracy. Will heavily depend upon what you're fighting though... I just lance everything, me being me. Only time I popped a walker in CC was a Penitent engine that got killed by a Reaver succubus with punisher who'd rolled the drug for +1 S (so was strength 6, ouch...).