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I've briefly played a nidzilla army (though with WON gaunts instead of genestealers) and found them quite dominating. I basically used 2 tyrants (1 winged, 3 guards), 3 carnies (1 elite), 3 zoans, 3 warriors, and some WON spinegaunts and found them pretty dominating at my local GW stores. And I know some nidzilla lists have even more TMC's than than mine. I hear some people say that nidzilla lists are one-trick ponies.
What I want to know is what kind of army list makes a good counter to a nidzilla one? What armies should I watch out for? Why is nidzilla a "one-trick pony" list? Basically, what weakness do I have for my enemies to exploit? Thanks.
BTW, my army is more geared towards close combat. The only thing that shoots is the flyrant, zoans, warriors and gaunts. Knowing my weaknesses will help me to make a more all-comers nidzilla list.
Last edited by jy2; April 13th, 2009 at 00:39.
Weaknesses? Well, there's the CC weakness-> gaunts die in CC like its no one's business, fexes die in CC like its going out of style, if those warriors are shooty then they'll die in CC as if they didn't even exist and zoans will die in CC quickly, too. Then there's the swarmy CC opponents like orks-> they'll tear apart everything but the tyrant with guard in CC like they were nothing. Then most armies can really pile on a lot of AP 2 firepower that will remove the TMCs in a hurry, if they kill you synapse then you can't score, stuff like that. But mostly its the whole "everything but the tyrants die the moment they get into CC" thing.
I guess there's also the whole lack of bodies, too. To kill all your MCs they only have to deal 26 wounds with plas, pfs, las, etc. Its even easier if you don't take 2+ saves because then they can kill things with missile launchers-> I've had elite fexes go down turn one after being shot at by one unit of havocs with 4 ML before.
Last edited by Phalanx; April 13th, 2009 at 01:11.
40K armies: Tyranids (2001), Space Wolves (2008), Sisters of Battle (2011)
Current Rep: 1337
I actually played against mechanized greenskins, shooty Tau & 2 MEQ armies (CSM, Necrons) and didn't have too much trouble with them (http://www.librarium-online.com/foru...es-2-days.html (Tyranids - 4 games in 2 days)). Though the orks tied me, I was decimating his forces and would have won if the single objective wasn't so large and easy to contest. Fortunately, all my TMC's except the elite fex was 2+.
Actually I hope my opponent fires at my gaunts. This gives my TMC's a chance to get closer unscathed. That's what my Tau opponent did at first, allowing my TMC's to get within assault. The gaunts that died early came back early and had plenty of time to run to objectives.
I find that in 1500-1750 games, there's not a whole lot of AP2 weaponry. Maybe from 5-10. The Tau did have a few fusion guns, plasmas and railguns, but he was spreading his fire on different targets instead of concentrating it. The only thing that really scared me was CSM's Typhus and his 4-9 power attacks that wound on 4+. TH/SS termies, Abaddon, & a Grey Knight Grandmaster also scare me. I think Imperial Guards and fast Eldar also may give me problems. Other than that, I don't see a whole lot that can hurt me.
A true Nidzilla list lacks in numbers. Even with WON, these is a serious limitation to the number of troops that can be engaged at all times. However, if done correctly, one could easily get a strong Zilla list with upwards of 60 creatures; that's enough to make your enemy think twice about shooting the big ones!
Applaud, my friend, the Comedy is finished.
Hive Fleet Charybdis (1-0-0) and Grey Brothers Space Wolf Chapter (3-1-2) [W-L-T]
My friend's Imperial Guard list fields three Basilisks and as many heavy weapons as he can fit into the list.
A ludicrous amount of heavy weapons focusing on one MC at a time will hurt after a while. My outflanking Genestealers sometimes come in from the wrong side and that makes me sad.
My other army is Eldar, and a mechanized Eldar list is difficult to deal with. Several skimmers moving around can outrun most MCs and the ones that catch up will only be able to hit on 6s. If I catch a MC all alone, all it takes is a squad of Dragons or Bladestorming Avengers and the MC is dead in one shooting phase. Worst case scenario, I assault their sniperfexes.
From my experience, a Nidzilla list's weakness is an opponent that knows how to focus fire and exploit your weaknesses. A Nidzilla list is strong because no matter how many wounds your MC takes, if it doesn't die, it is still fighting at maximum power. Losing a single MC is bearable, but if your opponent focuses fire correctly, you may lose 1-2 MCs per turn, and that hurts.
A sniperfex in close combat is a waste. Shooty carnifexes don't have enough attacks to 'win' close combat. They have the resilience to stay in close combat, and essentially your expensive carnifex is tied down in CC for 2-3 turns.
They don't have to expect to win versus a Carnifex, they simply have to tie it down. Even a unit of 10 or so Fire Warriors or Guardsmen or Guardians work for this task because your Carnifex only has two attacks per combat. You will probably obliterate one unit per combat, but you're still tied down.
Ive been playing nidzila for a while and the main problem i have is that if the MCs can be picked off, the army dosent have enough bite left to deal any real damage. This can be solved however by giving your fexs/tyrants a 2+ save and reinforced chitin, which will provide a lot of help when dealing with infantry or AP3. If you have enough points or you think that you might be facing a lot of plasma fire, then bonded exo-skelton can be a help, but its not critical. Mostly though, you can get around the weakness by playing semi-zilla 3 heavy fexs and 1-2 tyrants. this leaves pleanty of points spare to act as a fall back for the MCs. gaunts can actually do quite a good job of mopping up whats left after the Mcs have run through
4 30 man ork squad with a powerklaw hidden in it and Ghazgull Thraka with his squad and that damn wahggg! You can focus on one squad or spread it out but either way you need to go first to pop Ghazgull out of his truck. If you dont that is a whole lot of attacks coming at you second turn. Sure most of em suck but your still stuck in CC with all those klaws and you wont eat through them in time before you get trounced.
nidzilla was hurt bad by the 5th addition.... even w/o number most shooty armies played at a competitive level will do very very well vs you.... and things like 29 boys + PK nob destroy you.
biggest weakness's are focus fired ap2 tanks ( its almost all SM here... a land raider will put 2 wounds on your fex per turn. and 2 on your flyrant... a LR or a pred can simply out run your fexes and your flyrant shouldnt kill more then one vehical before getting shot down...
second bigest weaknes.... lack of troops. typically youll face 2/3 games as objectives... and yoru elite fexes and HQs can no longer score.... and i hear... "contesting" is good enough alot... well.. not in my expeirience. but that isnt to say it doesnt help
Not really...I don't use genestealers in my list. It's mainly their rending which has been nerfed. If anything 5th has helped. Now I can run my monsters and my gaunts can use just about anything for 4+ cover.nidzilla was hurt bad by the 5th addition.... even w/o number most shooty armies played at a competitive level will do very very well vs youAgain not really. While they'll hurt my elite fexes, My heavy fexes with 5 wounds, T7 and 2+ can survive a while. And because I have 4+d3 (for scythe tail) attacks and normally hit orks on 3's (Adrenal glands, Toxic Miasma), I'll kill about 3-4 a turn. Then they lose another 3-4 due to No Retreat. Mainly though, I usually attack in pairs. So that's 10 wounds they have to contend with while losing 12-14 each turn.and things like 29 boys + PK nob destroy you.biggest weakness's are focus fired ap2 tanks ( its almost all SM here... a land raider will put 2 wounds on your fex per turn. and 2 on your flyrant... a LR or a pred can simply out run your fexes and your flyrant shouldnt kill more then one vehical before getting shot down...
Rarely do armies field 3 LR's or 3 Pred's especially in games under 2000pts. Pointwise it's too costly, esp. the LR's. I've seen three demolishers, but never 3 predators yet. Again, I mainly attack in pairs so that they can't get away. And my flyrant, when I attack a vehicle, I usually position him so that he gets a cover save from the vehicle (unless he explodes it). That and his Warp Field makes him highly survivable once again.
I usually field 4 units of 7-9 spinegaunts w/WON. After initially shooting them, my opponent gives up on them when they see them come back next turn. Moreover, they'll too worried about my TMC's who are within or almost within charge range by that time.second bigest weaknes.... lack of troops. typically youll face 2/3 games as objectives... and yoru elite fexes and HQs can no longer score.... and i hear... "contesting" is good enough alot... well.. not in my expeirience. but that isnt to say it doesnt help
Typically nidzilla is powerful because the average force doesn't have enough of the gear required to exploit it's weaknesses.
5th changed things in that nidzilla can lose simply due to the lack of any real troops.
For all this though, there are one or two forces that with all-comers builds can decimate nidzilla, or at the very least make sure the battle is even.
Eldar and dark eldar.
Eldar because they can pack in a fair amount of high S and good AP weaponry while hiding in serpents and falcons - nidzilal wil lstruggle to stop them unless you punch it out of the sky.
Dark eldar = lol nidzilla. More high S AP2 weapons than you have wounds on the table (well, maybe not quite...) and the close combat gear required to cut even a godfex in half in a turn of combat.
It is worth noting however given the change to the damage chart nidzilla will struggle with a lot of highly mechanised forces (though i'm not sure how well SoB would do).