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Hey Fellow Warbosses
I'm going to my first big Tournament this weekend so I'm hoping I can get some advice for my final 2k List. With the help of Grax, I came up with this list and took it to my Weekly 40k shop to playtest it against one of the more Veteran Players.
He was playing the NEW IG Codex (the store had a copy), and unfortunately my list didn't too well...although He did have about 8x Tanks, 2 with Flamers , 2 that had the Assault 20 guns, 2 that Ignored Cover with Large Blast templates, and 2 that just had Large Blasts....and Lots of Anti-Armor.
Anyways, this is the list I ran,and following was his advice.
Warboss w/ Pk, Heavy 90
Big Mek KFF, Heavy 90
11x Boyz,Nob PK BP + Trukk Red/Ram 151 (Warboss)
11x Boyz,Nob PK BP + Trukk Red/Ram 151 (Big Mek)
20x Shoota Boyz, 2 Big Shoota, Nob PK BP 170
20x Shoota Boyz, 2 Big Shoota, Nob PK Bp 170
6x Nob Bikers, 2 PK, PainBoy, Cybork armor, Banner, Bosspole 400
10x Gretchin, RuntHerd 40pts
2x Battlewagons, Deffrolla, Grot Riggers, Big Shootas, RPJ 250.
9x Lootas 135
9x Lootas 135 (actually ran Burnas because I didn't have an extra 9x Lootas that could qualify as WYSIWYG)
5x Deffkoptas TL Rokkits 225 pts
The first and most important issue I want to address is the 2 units marked in Red.
1. Lootas. I would love to run 2x squads of 9 Lootas like originally suggested, but unfortunately I don't have time to make the conversions and I currently have about 10x Models that I think would work as Lootas.
2. The Deffkoptas. This Veteran Player is always telling me Deffkoptas suck! Unfortunately, they've never done much for me, but I decided to give them one more shot.....and they sucked. I only got to use them first turn, and they hit with 2 Rokkits vs AV 12...but they didn't even Glance the Armor. I Guess it's just my bad luck..but I was hoping to get something more Reliable.
3. This player also told me that I would be better off loading my BattleWagons with Slugga Boyz. Why? According to him, you're always better off with Slugga boys because....
A. You should always be charging or moving Vehicles at max speed to get into Close Combat ASAP. No deliberating during your shooting phase on whether you want to shoot with your Boyz or not, because on point for point, nothing beats Ork Boyz on the Charge
B. If you do take Shoota Boyz, the Most you're going to get is 1x round of shooting before assaulting, in which case the benefits are neglible (because you're gaining 1x Attack per boy, but losing 1x Attack in the assault). Afterwards, you will be at a disadvantage in extended combat because you'll be missing out on the Bonus Attacks for having One handed weapons.
Regardless of his opinions on this, I'm still taking Shoota Boyz because I already took a lot of time to kustomize and paint them. But I'm hoping I can get at least get some counter-opinions and good advice on how you use your Shoota Boyz in BW's. Perhaps I shouldn't shoot every turn or perhaps I'm unloading them too soon.
4. Gretchin, Lootas and Nob Bikers Suck unless you max out their numbers. I kinda agree with him on this, but I don't any more Gretchin or Nobs bikers to use atm. So I'll keep teh Bikers, try to get more Lootas...the Gretchin are still up in the air.
[COLOR=#000000] At any rate, the most important decision is what other options would be good for me if I decide not to go with Deffkoptas and don't have enough for the Extra Lootas.
I'm considering any combination of the following.
1. Looted Wagon, either as a transport or a BoomGun.
2. Burna Boyz with KMB meks.. I like the fact that the AP2 guns and the Burnas can be used to deny regular armor saves.
3. Kommandos (with Nob or Snikrot) - always liked these guys. Not sure if they would do well in this otherwise speedy army, and a lot of their usability depends on when and where they come in. But if things go well....it's always nice to surprise the enemy from behind.
4. Nobs. I'm wondering if another unit of 8x Nobs in a Trukk would be too much. I would take the same setup as listed above. Only downfall is I would need to make some more Kustom PowerClaws.
5. More Boyz!! If I drop the Gretchin or the take the Bikers as Elite, I could take another unit of Boys..either in a large mob on Foot or in a Speedy Trukk.
Last edited by Darkzephyr; April 17th, 2009 at 11:58.
Any reason people aren't responding? I hope this post isn't too confusing.
You have to give them time, man. Not everyone's a lightning fast poster. ^_^
It sounds like that list was more or less designed to specifically destroy Orks. I don't have any experience against the new IG codex, although I have read it, and indirect fire/tanks are the way they play.
Always outflank with deffkoptas. That's why they seem to suck. They only truly shine when they hop from the side of the board to behind your opponent's tanks and fire at their back armor.
Burnas absolutely suck without a transport. Lootas are the way to go, and I think he was being a little cheesy regarding WYSIWYG. It's a deffgun, a large looted gun. It can literally look like anything. I would've let you use the burnas as lootas. Tell the guy to stop being a jerk. Better yet, print this page, and I'll do it for you. Here we go:
Sir, stop relying on jerk tactics and douchebaggery to win games. ^_^
Yes, if you're going to assault, then sluggas are better...but why assault? I rarely assault with the shoota boyz in the battlewagons. They do a lot more damage when shooting. If their transport is gone, then by all means, get them into close combat, but as long as they have their bunker, they'll be fine inside.
I've found that battlewagons filled with sluggas have trouble against IG. Not only is it difficult to make it all the way into assault, since their anti-armor is good, but Slugga boyz beat them in combat too quickly, leaving them out in the open during your opponent's shooting phase. I prefer shootas, but it's up to you.
If you're worried about IG, the kommandos would be better than the nobz, especially if they have Snikkrot with them.
If you're going to use burnas, then definitely use the looted wagon as a transport for them.
In any case, don't lose hope! Good luck!
I think his issues with the Burnas is that he's setting this list for a tourney, so its probably not that his IG opponenet wouldn't let him, but that the Toruney may not...
For the Deffkoptas, if I ever run TL-Rokkits I always outflank with them to get to the more vulnerable sides of enemy armour. Only time I don't outflank is if I have Big Shootas on them and need/want the long range support.
I'm a big fan of slugga boyz in a BW over Shoota boyz. However, it sounds like you are unloading your Shoota boyz from the BW. Basically you want to move the BW and keep the boyz in aslong as possible to max out their shooting attacks. If you plan to unload them on turn 2 or 3 for the charge, then you are much better off with Slugga boyz.
By no means do you need to max out a squad of Nob bikers. He is suggesting you add 4 more bikers for a min cost of 200 more points. To what end? 6 Nob Bikers with2-3 PKs can take out most anything. In a 1500 point game I never run more than 6, and in 2000 I might consider 8, but 10 is overkill. Same with grots, you by no means need to max out their numbers. I generally go with 19 and the Runtherd for 67 points. I have gone as low as 13 with the Runtherd for 49 points. Yea that unit is likely toast after 1 round of shooting, but it was only 50 points and it saved a round of shooting at my boyz, which is all I needed them for anyway
Just realized you need to check your numbers, your Trukk Boyz should be 156, not 151. As the Trukk itself would be 50 with Red Paint and a Ram.
As for what to add, a couple of Boomwagons might be nice. Very good anti-MEQ/Infantry and against an army like IG it might bait them into firing at them 1st, saving the shots from the true threat of your Boyz.
Nothing new to add really, except trukks are only 45 points with red paint and a ram Monkeyclops.
Great advice as always, Grax.
I do want to clear something up. MonkeyClops is right. This individual couldn't care less about WYISWYG, but I wanted to practice it for the tournament because that's something they seem pretty strict on. As a matter of fact, this player helped me build a Kustom Loota out of some his spare IG parts...and he agrees that any old gun slapped together should be recognized as a Loota gun (so He actually more or less agrees with Grax about the "Looted Gun" options)
For my last option, I was thinking of one of the following options
15x Kommandos Nob, BP 185 pts.
12x Trukk Boyz 152 pts.
Total 337 pts. The only thing I would have to decide on is if I wanted to drop the Gretchin (which would free up 40 pts for more Lootas) or switch the Nob bikers to Elite instead of a Troop Choice.
b. 5x Deffkoptas TL rokkits 225pts.
10x KOmmandos, Nob PK 135pts
Ah, I see. I retract my comments regarding 'douchebaggery'. ^_^
Always give kommandos special weapons, preferably burnas. Without them, they're just overpriced boyz.
I'd consider using Snikkrot. Nothing's worse than accidentally winding up on the wrong side of the board, and having nothing the unit can do for you. I'd rather use deffkoptas than kommandos without Snikkrot. If you do want to use such a unit, I'd definitely keep them small.
Snikkrot with 12 kommandos with 2 burnas (13 models total) will MURDER their way through an enemy's back ranks. They're vulnerable to shooting, but virtually everything in the Ork army is. As long as you can keep them inside close combat, they'll be very useful.
Thats a good idea, Grax....
Assuming they let me use one my OOP models (with a big sword) as Snikrot..this is another option.
12x Kommandos + Snikrot with 2x Burnas 235 pts. (is that right?)
1x Looted Wagon with BoomGun. 105 pts.
That's 340pts, which should leave enough to get another Loota and another 5 pt upgrade (red Paint job perhaps)
Well, hopefully this will work out well..my only regret is that my stuff isn't as well-painted as I would like it to be (some stuff is still primed or unpainted). Also, I might have to miss a round on Sunday morning because I'm working.
Regardless, wish me luck and I'll let everyone know how it goes when I get back. Hope you guys look forward to the battle report.
For 5 points, I'd toss an extra gun onto the looted boomgun. That way it won't be useless if the main gun is destroyed. If nothing else, as long as it's shooting at the enemy, it might draw fire away from the rest of your army.