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I was just thinking about tactics against different armies, and in different game types, and thought how on earth am i meant to beat Orks.
At my Club, there is a nob biker list (and then 60 Ork boys in 3 trukks or whatever they are) and the other couple change what the have, but like the meganobz and big stuff, then lots more ork boys.
the Big stuff would be ok to take out, EML or BL (from Wraithlords) but what is the best way to take out 60 + ork boys, surely there is no chance in combat, and shooting, in my list there just isnt enough, i guess snipers are not needed (i have 10 of them) or at least only one squad, and then have a third squad of Dire Avengers, that is much more fire power, anyway tell me what you think/ previous experience
alrighty then, i know exactly what your problem is as my friend plays orks too.
the one thing you have to remember is to never let them come within 12" of you or your toast. with the waagh ability they take you within 12-18" and even with defend your dire avengers will be massacred. take multiple avenger squads with bladestorm and wave serpents. the wave serpents allow you to run away from the foot slogging squads and repeatedly bladestorm. snipers are a no go as they can't pump out the firepower needed for mass killing and with the mob rule orks will usually never take pinning tests at all.
wraithlords are ok but don't let them get into combat except with the vehicles as orks can pack alot of powerklaws surrounded by lots of boyz. striking scorpions are your best friends against orks if you do get into trouble as on the charge they can pump out 40 attacks and if you doomed the unit they charged, woe to that unit. you may even want to try out shadow weavers as the blast template with a str 6 can wreak havoc against the low save troops.
hope that helps.
Warwalkers with scatterlasers pump out loads of fire power. Couple that with guide and your good to go.
Two Fire Prisms for the ultimate multi pupouse tank. Kills hoard, MEQ, TEQ and tanks.
Striking scorpians, for the above reasons. Fantastic tar pit.
Harliquins. Dont laugh but i think if you doomed the knob biker squad and charged a bunch of these guys in with kisses it may prove effective.
Speed. Having most if not all of your men mounted will enable you to just run rings around him.
Warlocks in a falcon. 1xEnhance, 1xEmbolden, 4xDestuctors. 4 heavy flame templates??? Need you need more hoard killing power?!
Avengers for the above reasons.
Hope it helps
I hear and I forget, I see and I remember, I do and I understand
Success is the ability to go from failure to failure without losing your enthusiasm.
People may not like hearing about guardians but a storm guardian unit can get 2 flamers and a heavy flamer for round 130 points. if you can get those on a doomed squad of boys it is generally gone or so small that even the lowly guardians can beat it on the charge. Mind warring out the powerclaw nob can make an ork squad look alot less scary also.
Yer weedy gitz dun stand no chance 'gainst my boyz! We'z four timez shootier an' nine timez stompier. Dat's.. uh.. two 'undred timez as killy! Bwahahaha!
Really though.. Orks ARE shootier and ARE stompier than Eldar. The former is more a matter of opinion, the latter moreso fact.. It all lies within our strength in numbers.. we can pour so many dice into a bucket -- shooting or stomping -- that just about any opponent is bound to be overwhelmed.
Eldar, on the other hand, are much more specialized.. but don't overthink your specializations.. the only thing you need is mobility. Despite all of their prowess, Orks are felled by the dozens if they don't get the charge.
Your highest priority targets should be the Orks' more mobile elements -- Trukks, Warbikers, Storm Boyz, Deff Koptas, Warbuggies, Wagons.. Each of which have their own weaknesses.
All of our vehicles are open topped, and all have AV 10 at least somewhere.. Our Trukks and Warbuggies are 10 all around, and both Wagons are rear AV 10.. So even your Str 4 weapons are capable of glancing and wrecking.. but your more specialized anti-vehicle weapons.. well, they're pretty much garunteed to mess /something/ up.
Deffkoptas are easy.. T4, 2W with a 4+ save.. They're limited to 5 models, which is their weakness.. They do not benefit from Mob Rule, and so they're stuck with a measily Ld 7. Inflict 25% casualties and they're likely to break, and will have just as difficult a time regrouping. Warbikers on the other hand are slightly more difficult. They benefit from a 4+ armor save as well as a 4+ cover save.. so don't bother trying to hit them with low AP weapons.. just overwhelm them with a high volume of fire.
Nob Bikers will be a bit trickier.. Fully tricked out with T5(4), 2W, 4+ armor / cover save, 5+ invulnerable save, and feel no pain.. I've absorbed the full wrath of 3 Tactical Squads / Rhinos, 3 Dreadnoughts, and Two Sternguard Squads for four turns straight.. and only suffered two casualties.. I've no real suggestions for these Boyz, granted in my above mentioned scenario, I was very lucky.. Hit them with instant death weapons and pray that The Laughing God didn't have an uneventful morning.. Provided that the Nobz fail their cover save, meltas, emls, bright lances, etc, will instantly kill them without benefit of FNP.
Finally, Storm Boyz are possibly out fastest Boyz.. With a 12" + d6" movement, 6" running, and a 6" assault, they can fly over terrain and get across the board in no time. But they're still just Ork Boyz with oversized rokkits straped to their backs, shoot 'em up before they get the charge and you'll be fine. Also remember that they do not have the Waaagh! special rule, and so cannot charge on the turn that they run!
One other high priority target is the Big Mek with Kustom Force Field. The KFF grants a 4+ cover save to all vehicles within 6" and a 5+ cover save to all infantry with at least one model within 6". With so many models potentially benefitting from the added save, that measily 5+ can go a long way! .. and.. Vehicles, even the paper armoured Trukk, can be made sickly durible with a 4+ save..
Once the Orks' more mobile units are out of the picture, most of your army has fleet, or can ride within fast skimmers.. you can easily outmaneuver the remainder of the Ork army. From there.. follow these few additional pointers and you'll likely have no problems..
First -- Never let the Orks charge you! Well.. unless you're baiting them with a sacrificial unit.. Orks are only ever highly effective when they get the charge, but otherwise have to fight an uphill battle in a protracted battle. If you get the charge, even a large mob shouldn't be a hastle. Especially if you're fighting with a more durible Aspect such as Striking Scorpions (your best bet, with a high volume of Str 4 attacks and a 3+ save), Warp Spiders (very fast with Jump Packs as well as a 3+ save) or Dire Avengers (Exarch with Shimmer Field and Defend)
Second -- Beware Power Klaws. Any Ork player worth his weight in teeth will have a Nob with a Power Klaw in every mob of Boyz. Its da law! The Nob will strike last, granted, but with so many Boyz, they're likely to survive at least a round or two.. if not even longer.. against any unit of 10 or less, the PK Nob is capable of winning a protracted battle single handedly.
Third -- Don't worry about fancy AP weapons except against Mega Armoured Nobz (which, by the way, will fall like rocks to a round of shooting from your Fire Dragons) Focus on a high volume of fire.. Bladestorm, Multilasers, Shuriken Cannons.. and my pet favorite, Vibro Cannons! They won't break a unit by themselves, but the potential to inflict so many Xd6 wounds will soften up multiple units across several turns.. making the job that much easier for the rest of your army. And with so many damn models, you're almost garunteed to hit several units per turn.
Conclusion: Eliminate our mobile units before they're allowed to tie you up and slow you down, outmaneuver us at all costs, wittle us down from afar before you move in for the kill.. but never advance too hastily.. play the battlefield as though it were a game of chess, and you can systematically rip apart an Ork Horde.
Oh.. and as mentioned above, beware the Waaagh! One of your strengths lies within Fleet of Foot.. and Waaagh! allows us to reap that very benefit for one turn per game.
Cheers! Hope I've been of help ^-^
---------- Post added at 18:23 ---------- Previous post was at 18:17 ----------
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Da Moo Kowz is da drinkinest Orks of dem all!
QFT~! Although i like to take the farseer with em, and leave the embolden guy at home. Also, the eldar have wicked fast tanks so use it to your advantage, load up on scatter lasers or shuri-cannons shoot the crap out of the boys and trucks the first round and then just tank shock the filthy greenskins into submission. Its not hard to break a unit down from fearless status if you keep your range. I know its not the best, but i love banshees for dropping the big bad Gazzguhl and his armored boyz. But like its been said. If you let them assault you're goose is COOKED. Stay mobile with jetsbikes and tanks and always keep 18 inches between ya'll. If the choice is between running and shooting, RUN!
The nob bikes are the DEVIL, the only way i've effectively dealt with them is a healthy helping of banshees w/doom. They are a very high priority target for me, cause they can keep up pretty well with the rest of my army. I usually try to bait them with shining spears or other jet bike units (effect against em, but not enough shots) and then ambush em with banshees in wait from a wave serpent. The spears are nice though, cause you'll probably get one or two every turn that they ignore with the lances, all of which don't grant them any armor saves and subsequently feel no pain. If you pop enough of em, the spears can handle it themselves anyway.
Last edited by FartsMcGee; April 20th, 2009 at 05:40.
Poop out fire dragon squad on them from wave serpent should do the trick. Also Seer Council rerolling everything should tar pit them pretty well. Also fire Prism is a very good idea as well.
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Nob Bikers are a whole problem to themselves which I wont go into here as it's covered in so many places and they are going to be a problem any way you look at it. you'll probably see the word "Doom" come up in several ways when you read about it.
Hordes on the other hand are just funny to an Eldar player. Storm guard with Flamers and destructor, Destructor councils, massed guardians/Avengers with catapults and guide/doom are going to net you a lot of kills in a single phase. A 20 man Defender squad with EML and Embolden is a personal favourite of mine.
Sometimes however despite your best efforts the boys will arrive at close quarters and this is where the Scorpions shine. Lead by a Farseer (who is conveniently positioned away from any power klaws) the Farseer casts doom on the boyz and fortune on his own unit. If you can get the charge great, if not, then you'll live. That unit will take a squad of boyz square on the chin and tear the heart out of them in two rounds of fighting for minimal losses. The Farseer can even stand behind them for safety if he wants in another unit, just as long as he's in fotune range when it counts.
Eldar armies can pack severe anti-light infantry at low cost that should make hordes of minimal worry.
"ask not the Eldar a question, for he will give you three answers, all of which are true and terrifying to know"