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Perhaps someone can clear this up for me... I was trying to figure out why so many people say to put star engines on falcons/wave serpents I was reading the rule book and seen that in the skimmers section it says a fast skimmer may move up to 24" which as eldar we spend points to allow us to move 12" then another 12" (total of 24") in lieu of shooting... Is there something I am missing?
Yes! With star engines its an ADDITIONAL 12" in leiu of shooting. Flat out happens in the moving phase, star engines happens in the shooting phase, per eldar FAQ.
in leiu of shooting would mean in place of shooting. So if you move flat out, you cant shoot, which means you cant use star engines... and if you want to use the star engines you must move less then 12'' and then move 12'' during your shooting phase.
There is no use for them anymore, becuaes if you use the star engine you do move more then 12'' but not counting as moved flat out and you wont get the bonus of the cover save for moving flat out.....
Well, i can see where it is handy in one situation. move 12'' and drop off a squad by pivoting the rear twords the enemy so the squad is closer (like fire dragons with thier short range) and then use the extra movement to get in front of the sqaud to give them cover or just to not have your rear sticking at the enemy.
wait what? i'm pretty sure that flat out happens in the movement phase, and star engines happens in the shooting phase, giving the tank a total of 36" for movement, the exact wording being an "additional 12 in leiu of shooting," as in you already got 12" for not shooting, here's an additional 12". Both at the cost of shooting, and it says in the codex that if you use star engines you can't embark or disembark troops on that turn.
The FAQ specifically says that star engines happens in the shooting phase.
I've used my tanks to go 36" several times in GW sponsored leagues and i've never had anyone challenge me on it, even with the staff standing right there. I'm pretty sure that's how star engines work. Again, I could be wrong, hope i'm not.
From the eldar FAQ 2008 we read that:
"Q: The Star Engines descriptions says the vehicle may move an extra 12" 'in lieu of shooting.' Does this mean that they cannot make this extra move if they are unable to shoot for other reasons (such as being shaken)? Also, when is this move executed - in the movement or the shooting phase?
"A: As long as the vehicle is allowed to move that turn and does not shoot or embark/disembark troops, it may use its Star Engines. This means that it can use them when shaken, but not whilst stunned. This extra move of up to 12" is executed during the Shooting phase."
So even if the tank couldn't shoot during the shooting phase cause it moved flat out, it can still take its star engine move because it can still move and hasn't embarked/disembark. I hope that helps clear things up
Now, the REAL question is can they tank shock during their star engines move? The wording is "instead of moving normally" Star engines are a part of that units normal movement... (abnormal movement being things like flying or embarking/disembarking) but they don't occur in the movement phase. Then again because it is a special rule som are inclined to think that its not normal movement. I think that tank shock and star engines are alright as long as you go in a straight line, and don't use it to zig zag all over tank shocking entire armies with just two tanks, lol that'd be pretty funny though. If you can't tank shock on the star engines move you certainly can use it to reorient your tank though. So either way star engines are still VERY useful.
Last edited by FartsMcGee; April 20th, 2009 at 07:11.
so what is it? move 36" or waste of points?
Flat Out is in the Movement Phase - but prevents Shooting that turn
Star Engines is in the Shooting Phase -
- Prism Rules for Boosting Prism S/AP
As laid out in the Eldat FAQ;
A Fire Prism must "Voluntarily" give up its Shooting to Support another
So Crew Stunned (no shooting permitted) means it CANNOT support another Prism
- Tranfer this thinking to Star Engines
If you move Flat Out, you have lost ability to Shoot
Therefore you cannot "voluntarily give up" Shooting for 12" of Star Eng movement.
So 24" in Movement and an addl 12" in shooting doesnt seem to be allowed.
Again read the star engine answer carefully.
As long as the vehicle is allowed to move that turn and does not shoot or embark/disembark troops, it may use its Star Engines.
The requirements are clear, it isn't a given up opportunity to shoot, its an upgrade that grants an additional 12" in leiu of shooting or embarking/disembarking.
And in response to Nihimindu the 36" is a big deal, it means that on turn two you can have banshees all the way on the other side of the table AND assaulting if you 36" your first move. Top of turn 2 they jump out before the vehicle moves and they can move and assault as normal. So you're right, that if you don't go more than 24" its a waste of points, but vehicles that go more than 24" is an advantage that NO OTHER ARMY HAS, and hence gives us eldar players a HUGE leg up on the competition.
Anyway, there have been older posts on this topic anyway and they come to the same conclusion.
Last edited by FartsMcGee; April 20th, 2009 at 07:40.
I agree with FMG, I've always played it as moving an extra 12" for the full 36" movement and I've done this in GW tourneys and leagues and no-one has objected, so given this and the quotes from the FAQ I'd say it's perfectly acceptable to move 36".
Otherwise why would you spend so many points on them?
I agree too, i just didnt see that in the faq when i went over it. 36'' it is!
Sick huh, 36"!!! So fast, who needs open topped when you can go 36" and get a save, 6's on assault, and the transported unit can assault the next turn anyway. Throw some fortune on that mess and you have a got a VERY mean transport.