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Hey im using the Deciver in a 1500 pt list (i know most people are against it but want too anyway just for fun), and i was wondering whats the best use of it my army also has a lith 30 warriors some wraith and distroyers. The way i used him was just to hang about until got into assult and ate some termies, but then he got shot to bits before the next turn.
First game i used him in died really easly to massed rocket fire, all be it some good rolls, but this still lead me to belive there must be a better way to use him. I will admit as well i forgot about his panic inducing speal rules.
Building a Necron Army List around the Deceiver character takes some work, but when pulled off it's called a Fear List. It uses several different elements of the Necron forces to focus and combine attacks.
The hallmarks of the Fear List are the following units and wargear:
Deceiver, Pariah, Gaze of Flame, Flayed Ones
- For example, using the Deceiver with a unit of Pariah nearby will increase the effectiveness of his Special Rules because any unit within range will have their Leadership reduced to 7. This makes him far more dangerous to high-Ld armies like Space Marines.
- Add a Necron Lord with Gaze of Flame to the Pariah squad and any enemy units in combat with them will be reduced to Ld 6. This unit now has a 50/50 chance of failing Morale checks to the Deceiver's abilities.
- Flayed Ones, while less important, can be combined with Pariah to make their Special Rule more potent. Together with a Necron Lord with Gaze of Flame, the enemy unit now has a 50/50 chance of only hitting on 6's in assaults.
Unlike Nightbringer who can often be thrown straight at the enemy, the Deceiver works best when supported by specific units to amplify his abilities. Concentrate on specific targets that are tactically important to your enemy, work to reduce their Leadership before coming at them with the Deceiver and follow him up with support units like Pariah or Flayed Ones.
It's tricky to pull off because this kind of list relies on several expensive (pointswise) units working together at the right time. If one of the units gets unlucky then the army can quickly fall apart. Pariah in particular suffer because they do not have the resilience of Necron Warriors and can quickly be destroyed if not taken care of. Large units of Pariah get very very expensive.
Use your judgement and adapt your army accordingly. It often heavily depends on what your opponent is fielding too. Good luck!
Thanks there is some great advice there i thought about using pharas but was worried about there pts cost but i do also love the models. I will ahve a play around see what i can achive.
Thanks if anyone has more advice i would love to hear it especially on keeping enough units in the army would a lith work in a deciver list or would the pts of both take it too far?
I've found that a Monolith and a Deceiver in the mix in a 1500 game is a bit much since it's two models taking up more than a third of your points costs. It just makes your phase out dangerously low (which is how I like it ). A Monolith offers great support for your Warriors WBB'ing or to lay some pie plates towards the opposition, so using it is a double-edged sword so to speak.
I tend to misuse the Deceiver in my games because I charge him away from the proximity of my Warriors and it leaves me vulnerable to assault. I've been trying to use him more as a counter assault unit, bodyguard if you will, for the Warriors since they are so vulnerable in CC. I've seen a lot of posts regarding using him this way, and it seems that most people agree to keep him in close proximity to your army.
With using the Fear list, which is highly entertaining to play in my opinion, it is better if you keep everything close to each other in order for the Pariahs to shine. The problem with the Fear list is that you're pretty limited as far as range is concerned and you end up having to slog across the field huddled in a big group. I usually try to make up for this using destroyers or scarabs. Destroyers, which are risky to use for the fact that you're already low on Necron count due to using Pariahs and the Deceiver, are really nice flank containers while you're army moves forward and can provide that ranged firepower that the army generally lacks. Scarabs are a nice cheap way of screening your army as well. You can keep them in front of your army and give the rest a cover save from incoming fire and then use them to tie up a heavy weapons squad (preferably). The place where Fear lists typically work well, or at least in my experience, is against assault-oriented units like termies, orks, etc. I don't have any experience against Tyranids but they look very similar to Orks in most regards.
So, back to the Deceiver. He seems to be better kept around the rest of your army, especially in using a Fear list. I'm still trying to master using him myself, so don't be discouraged. Misdirect, shoot, and charge in a again works wonders for anything in front of your army.
If the guy you're playing does mass Krak fire on him, technically you should be fine for a couple of turns. Probability wise, he needs to fire 6 Kraks at him to get that expected wound ( (6 shots)*(2/3 to hit)*(1/2 to wound)*(1/2 to save) = 1). That's also 6 less Kraks firing into your Warriors or Destroyers
I hope this helped!
After 2 turns:
"What the #%&! I killed 14 warriors and only 2 actually died?!"
"Looks like you're going to have to do something else!"
The most important thing you should have in mind is that you should use the Deceiver as defense, and not send him out alone. Keep him back, so your opponent will have a hard time assaulting your warriors.
He is a anti-assault unit. What is scarier than a unit you CAN'T hit in cc? One that can destroy you and send your unit running off the edge in terror. I know I wouldn't assault the deceiver...
Last edited by cooliox; April 24th, 2009 at 09:40. Reason: fixing my 1337 speak habit
So... if I gave some daemons a matte paint-job, would they be "Matte Daemons?"
Necron Tactica: Flying Circus
I think that, like any unit in the Necron army, it must be a part of a plan that, hopefully, includes as much as the rest of your army as possible.
This weekend I had a game (my first in a while!) and used the big D for the first time. I rushed him forward, forgetting that he didn't have fleet. He was wide open, and my opponent had two demolishers (Death Guard) and a landraider with lascannons.
Fortunately for me, I had a squad of destroyers, a heavy destroyer, and a teleporting lord with immortals to distract him. Also, he was more interested in shooting at my advancing warriors.
By the end of the game the Deceiver lost two wounds, but took out a greater daemon, daemon prince, and an entire squad of plague marines (including the powerfisted champion). Definitely made the points back. BTW, I had a Monolith, too, and with a single direct hit of the particle whip on Typhus and his Plague Marine retinue, it had made its points back, too.
I was a little disappointed, though, that he couldn't get a lot of his special abilities to work (frikkin' fearless marines *shakes fist*), and while I'll keep using him, I think he works well with stuff that lower leadership, such as *gasp!* pariahs. If all you want is a cc monster, the Nightbringer MIGHT be better, though he's MUCH more expensive.
I also didn't have much need for the redeployment ability, since it was Dawn of War setup (frikkin' Dawn of War!)
I like the Deceiver better because he's cheaper, has higher initiative, and can get out of CC combats it doesn't want to take part in. I have him tear apart squads of termies and dreads on a regular basis, BTW. Not so good against masses, but at least he ties them up. And if they DO kill him, his deathsplosion will make your enemy pay.
The problem I see people have with using the golden boy, is they treat him like some carnafex, where he just charges across the field willy nilly. Thats GONNA get him killed. The best use Ive found is to have him support my wings of destoryers and protect the "phase-outers" I mean warriors...
Mind you the list I run is
2 groups of 10 warriors
3 groups of 4 Destroyers
This way I can deny a flank using the Monolith to hold the center, and the Ctan can more easily have assults "syphoned" to him, all while protecting the real damage dealers in our book, the destroyers.
Mind you, there are situations where its requared for him to go off and do nasty things, you just have to practice with him to see when your guys need that extra protection (I often run him if its a dawn of war deployment)
I had a tournament final where I played a Witchhunter/IG force, Dawn of war deployment, I placed the Deceiver on the left, and nothing else on the field. He sets up his vulnrible HQs/Tanks on the right where he had open terrain. "Grand illusion" leads my Ctan to be shifted to the other side where he spent the next 6 turns killing a LemonRuss/2 Exorcists/Cannoness/Inquisitor Squad/ making 2 IG troops run off the field/ before finally exploding and almost taking 2 more sisters squads out with him. I beleive he may have made his points back that round /wink
@ Canew, his abilities work on fearless, odds are your just gonna be trying to force Pins. The real problem is that every SM and every Ok in space is leadership 10 now...
Last edited by ztlambe; April 30th, 2009 at 06:20.