Talos assaulting a Monolith - Warhammer 40K Fantasy
 

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  1. #1
    Member LTdomination's Avatar
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    Talos assaulting a Monolith

    So I'm trying to convince my roommate that he's wrong about this certain ruling with his Talos assaulting a Monolith. Ok so here's the situation:

    He's saying that if a Talos (a DE 'monstrous creature') assaults a Monolith, it would get its additional hit counter for armor penetration. I say, no, it's only his base strength plus a dice.

    The Talos special rule says:
    "Against a vehicle roll only once for Armour penetration, but add +1 to the Armour Penetration dice roll for each hit scored by the Talos after the first (eg, if the Talos hits a vehicle three times with its claws it would add +2 to its AP roll)." The most recent FAQ for DE has made the Talos a monstrous creature. It wouldn't get it's extra D6 for penetration anyways, but I'm just saying.

    Ok so the Living Metal rule says that it ignores lances, blah blah blah, and extra dice for penetration like we all know. It says that essentially it is always unaugmented strength plus a single D6 for penetration against the Monolith.

    I was always under the impression that nothing gets extra penetration bonuses, but I can't really think of any other situation in which this has happened. I'm pretty sure that something like Tank Hunters wouldn't get the +1 to armor penetration against a monolith. The Talos rule specifically says that it's armor penetration added on top of the one single roll as opposed to adding it to his strength (which it essentially does). I keep telling him that nothing gets penetration bonuses and dice, but he might have a point. Please someone help me clarify this so I can keep him from weaseling his way into a technicality.

    Last edited by LTdomination; April 24th, 2009 at 19:33.
    After 2 turns:
    "What the #%&! I killed 14 warriors and only 2 actually died?!"
    "Looks like you're going to have to do something else!"

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  3. #2
    Senior Member Lemt's Avatar
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    RAW, he's right. The LM rule says no extra penetration dice, but it says nothing about not counting any other special bonuses. So, sucks as it might, the Talos gets the extra penetration.

    And nowhere does it currently say anything about unaugmented strength. In fact, the FAQ specifically says that strength augmentation DOES work against the 'lith.

  4. #3
    Member pathtyphon's Avatar
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    As a Dark Eldar player, I am afraid to say that he can add those AP points. Just remember though he cannot cheat you by using the 2D6 MC creature rule Talos now have.
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  5. #4
    Member LTdomination's Avatar
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    Actually the unaugmented part is straight from the codex lol. It says specifically "any weapon attacking the Monolith will roll for armour penetration using its unaugmented strength and a single D6 no matter what."
    After 2 turns:
    "What the #%&! I killed 14 warriors and only 2 actually died?!"
    "Looks like you're going to have to do something else!"

  6. #5
    Supreme Evil Overlord Dreachon's Avatar
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    I believe the monolith entry also says you get no form of bonus penetration.

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    Member LTdomination's Avatar
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    Here's the Living Metal rule as per the Codex:
    Weapons that lower the vehicle's armor value like bright lances and blasters don't do so against the monolith. Anything that attacks the monolith that would normally get extra penetration dice, do not do so against the monolith. Ordnance weapons still roll 2D6 and pick the highest. Anything attacking the monolith will roll for armour penetration using its unaugmented strength and a single D6 no matter what.

    (I'm not sure if I'm allowed to post quotes from the codex... I know I can't post point values. If I'm in the wrong here, let me know and I'll paraphrase it)
    Last edited by LTdomination; April 24th, 2009 at 21:19. Reason: I don't wanna be yelled at!
    After 2 turns:
    "What the #%&! I killed 14 warriors and only 2 actually died?!"
    "Looks like you're going to have to do something else!"

  8. #7
    LO's Shadow Captain Lost Nemesis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LTdomination View Post
    In practice, any weapon attacking the Monolith will roll for armour penetration using its unaugmented strength and a single D6 no matter what."
    That part isn't in my codex. Was there a reprint?

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    Senior Member Dark Trainer's Avatar
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    No, you're not supposed to quote the codex at all. Should edit that, but the rule states 2 things. Does it count the monolith as less armor value, NO...does it get an additional dice for pen...NO. Neither of those negate the talos because it's still AV 14 (he's just gaining to his AP), and there's no additional dice he gets for pen...so he would get this special rule. This happens with some other weapons that are devastating.
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    gone fishin' avatar of khaine's Avatar
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    Yes nemesis, there's been codex reprint. I'm not sure which one i've got, but it tends to be the better-worded one. Anyway, due to there being two versions which are legal, these questions keep circling round the forum. In this case, a talos would not gain a strength modifier from its extra attacks.
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    Member LTdomination's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lost Nemesis View Post
    That part isn't in my codex. Was there a reprint?
    Yeah there was reprint. I bought my codex around 2 years ago. I'm pretty sure there are only 2 versions with a couple of different wordings.
    After 2 turns:
    "What the #%&! I killed 14 warriors and only 2 actually died?!"
    "Looks like you're going to have to do something else!"

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