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Have you guys come across TL lascannon razorback swarms in your adventures yet? Game I played last night used three of the suckers with drop podded dreads and tacts, with another rhino with sternguard. I ran a mech eldar list, and he popped three of my transports right off the bat, I failed the cover saves, which sucks.. but still I got whooped. The pods pinned me down to fight and i couldn't get any AT to the transports
How would you guys tackle this one?
My list was a
Doom/fortune council 5 warlocks w/falcon
18 DA's (two squads) w/ 1 WS
9 Howling Banshees w/WS
5 Fire Dragons w/falcon w/holofields
3 5 marine TL lascannon razorbacks
1 5 sternguard rhino w/ sergent
2 droppod dreads
10 droppod tacts w/Librarian w/ sergent
1 Land Speeder wave storm w/5 scouts w/ sergent
I guess the real penalty here was Spearhead deployment He got to place his razorbacks all the way on the other corner of the table from me. So i only got one shot of prism before he blew up my tanks.
I readily dispatched the droppod'd stuff but it cost me my mobility, and with out that i was cooked.
I guess Id try and get some Wraithlords with BL and EML in the army. Not only will they provide extra AT power, and something else that can absorb hits from heavy weapons, but they can act as a counter to those Drop pod Dreads.
Maybe drop Fire Dragons and both Falcons. Replace the Seer Council's Falcon with a Wave Serpent and then put in 2 Wraithlords with EML/Brightlance. Further points tweeking may be required as i don't have a codex with me. Another option maybe 1 Wraithlord and a unit of War Walkers armed with Scatter Lasers. Have them use thier Scout rule to come onto the table sides from reserve. Thier guns are more then enought to take down transports and marines.
Those are my ideas.
well one thing you can do to make your list much better is take away the falcon that you seer council goes in and buy all of them jet bikes and give your farseer fortune and doom, also give your warlocks destructors so this way you can kill anytank with your witch blades and take down loads of infintry with 5 destructors with doom. Also this way you dont have to worry about your transport getting shot down because your on jetbikes, and your fortuned up. lastly if your on jet bikes your council has a 3+ save and a 4+ invulnerable save which works very well with fortune.
Remeber you can move 12inches and charge 6 into a tank with those witchblades.
The list I play against regularly is 2 Lascannon Razorbacks, 2 Lascannon Predators and 2 Tactical Squads with Lascannons. I rarely have trouble keeping my tanks alive. Maybe it's good luck on my part, or bad luck on his, but only once have I lost more than 1 tank in an entire game.
Against drop-pods (especially in spearhead deployment), I would really consider reserving everything and going second. That way he doesn't know where to land his droppods and you can pick them off. Even without an Autarch it can work. Plus you'll have an easier time reaching his tanks.
Another thing to consider is that Razorbacks are no tougher than Rhinos. The fall very easily to Shuriken Cannon and Scatter Laser fire. I've had very good luck running a squad of 6 jetbikes against my friend. They can withstand a lot of shooting (especially with an Embolden Warlock) and as long as you keep the two with Cannons alive, they can zip around and pop tanks like crazy.
It really sounds like you had some bad luck against this list. A single Lascannon, even twin linked, only has a 25% chance of doing anything and a 1/6 chance of penetrating if you get a cover save. What are you fortuning? Since the Farseer can cast out of the tank, it may be worthwhile to fortune to Dragon's Falcon so you can be almost certain that it gets where it needs to be.
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I usually fortune the ladies' wave serpent and first move get them as close to a target with flatout as fast as possible. I'm glad to hear that it wasn't just me sucking.
In regards to the seer councils jetbikes, I could barely afford the tank to put em in, let alone the points for bikes that they would need.
Yeah, I'm defiantely leaning towards going back to a wraithlord on this list, instead of the fire prism. It was murder watching each tank pop one by one... 100 pts here... 100 pts there. Couldn't believe that i didn't make a single save on any of em. But still, to blame the dice is usually a mistake.
The fire dragons are critical for the two drop pod drednoughts though. I can't give em up either cause of all the pods that get dropped, playing kill points, that's free victory right there.
Didn't think I could mount a council in a wave serpent.
Oh and his stupid librarian shut down fortune, hence the council died.
You can take a wave serpent with the council.
Also you might want to consider switching unmounted DA for guardians, as they can take cover and fire away and then move to objectives later. I'm not too impressed with footslogging DA, especially at their price.
But to the point of your battle. You know whether you're going to be going first or second (well ~90% of the time you do),
If you don't like the lay of the land, especially against drop pod armies, just put everything in reserve. Works better with Autarchs, but they aren't neccesary.
The result is that instead of getting shot up and dropped on in the first turn, your opponent has to drop half the army on turn one without hitting anything. Than on turn two they have to drop some more.
Now when you come on at the end of turn two you can see how things are laid out. And drop podded units tend to be shorter ranged, so often you're able to avoid them while engaging other parts of their army.
Also DA and dragons are good at "pouncing" that is hopping out when you move their transport on and having them do some damage.
Yeah, i've been really thinking about rolling a reserve back up plan, but it makes me pretty nervous. I have intense fears about the whole thing going tits up as my units come on improperly matched and one at a time.
Use Serpents instead falcons if you depend on mobility. Their resilience is waaay higher than a falcon due to the energy field rule. Or put the council on jetbikes.
That being said, falcons are quite a few more points, so you may want to make the switch just to save points and heavy support slots.
However reserves are a lot more friendly now that you can "form up" units ahead of time. i.e. that you don't have to have the falcon, farseer, and a squad come on seperatly but can have them all come in mounted up.
What should happen is that you get half of your army on turn two. And importantly that means you get to attack first. So, presuming you got your falcons/serpents decent weaponry you have a solid chance of dropping or at least shaking some Razorbacks. Also if you position well you should still get cover saves without having to move too far.
As for falcons vs serpents they have different situations where each is more suvivable. Serpents do well against high strength/multiple dice ranged attacks while falcons are better if you get charged. However I lean towards serpents because while the extra firepower is nice falcons are pricey.