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    Dealing with swarmy melee daemons

    I've recently been playing against a daemon player that almost exclusivly goes melee and i'm having a hard time getting better than draws.

    His typical list will include something like:

    2x 20ish bloodletters
    1x 20ish daemonettes (omg they so good vs bugs)
    Bloodcrushers
    1 or 2 soul grinders
    1 BT
    and other random elements (usually nurgle or something to hold)


    I have pretty much everything in my possesion in the nid codex and i've tried several lists to try and hold back the warp tide but it always turns into a melee bloodbath.

    Melee MC's fall to combined daemonette, BT assaults
    Shooty MC's don't seem to get enough down b4 they reach me
    9x warrior with DS and BS do ok, but again they are a high priorty target for the daemons and usually DS'd by and chased down quickly.
    Gaunts fly off the board to anything... which i expect anyways ; )
    Carni's get tarpitted by crushers

    Now, that said, genestealers have been great, but their point cost is a limiting factor for me. Keeping 2-3 squads to counter charge or charge into daemons has worked well, but ultimately leads to just trading squad for squad with him.

    I've read previously that pie plates and blasts are the way to go, but it seems that my target selection rapidly declines as more and more units get tied up in CC.

    Any suggestions? I'd like to know exactly how you would deploy and setup intially as well.


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  3. #2
    Senior Member Lemt's Avatar
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    Zoanthropes seem like a very good choice here, with warp blast. Also, Give Warp Blast to two Tyrants, possibly with retinues (2 for each should be ok, think of them as extra wounds). Or you could have a flying Tyrant, again with Blast.

    Gotta love pie plates.

    Example army list I'd run:
    3 Zoanthropes with Warp Blast and Synapse
    2 Tyrants with Warp Blast, Deathspitter, Scything Talons and 2 Guards each
    2 groups of 10 Genestealers with Extended Carapace, Feeder Tendrils, and Scything Talons
    2 groups of 16 Gaunts with Glands for +1I, Spinefists, Sacs for +1S and Without number.

    Remember that Tendrils have range of effect, so your non-stealer units can also benefit if they stay close by. If the Gaunts shoot and assault with stealers close, they'll kill 2 MEQs from shooting and 4 MEQs in the assault on average, meaning 6 MEQs down before they get a chance to strike back! Not so hot against daemonettes, but those can be taken care of by shooting.
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  4. #3
    Tyranid Warrior Fanatic Phalanx's Avatar
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    If you really want to be evil, take a tyrant with acid maw, implant attack, 2x scy-tals, and wings and run him right into the blood crushers. Every wound kills a blood crusher and you get 6 attacks on the charge that ignore saves and re-rolls failed wounds.

    Other than that, field a couple of squads of WoN spinegaunts. When the daemons DS, run them in such a way that the daemons need to assault them to get to who they really want to kill. This will give you an extra turn to shoot and will likely give you the charge if you want to assault them. Daemons aren't nearly so bad when they don't get the charge.
    40K armies: Tyranids (2001), Space Wolves (2008), Sisters of Battle (2011)
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  5. #4
    Senior Member grantneodude's Avatar
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    Group up your units with a gaunt screen around. This will prevent him from getting too close to your important units w/o huge risk of a bad DS.

    Also think dakka. Just hit the standard guys (Bloodletters and Daemonettes) with large amounts of fire. Sure they have an invuln but it's only 5+. Volume of shots will take these guys down like nobodies business.

    Blasts really are awesome against daemons, when you can hit them after they DS. Load some carnifexes with a BS/Devs. Should do some serious damage to them after they DS.

    If you can knock out most or all of his first wave first turn, you will be at a huge advantage. Line the outside of your army with WoN spinegaunts. Forces him to charge those.

    Also for those Bloodcrushers, consider Implant Attack stealers, or MC. Deny him the 3+ armor save with it and he's working with 5+ invuln.

    You say he likes to hit your 'fex with the Crushers. Slap Implant Attack on the fex, and watch his crushers go down with pretty much every hit. Best to tool a CC fex for this. 2xST, AG(WS as I is pointless. They are going first), Bonded exoskeleton, and Reinforced Chitin. This guy will be hell for his BT and BC's, especially if you charge him.
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  6. #5
    Schemer dapredator66's Avatar
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    My friend, if you have a flying Hive Tyrants, lictors and scuttling genes you can play a little game with him... You do NOT deploy anything. That's right don't deploy your force. If you rolled first let him take the first turn and watch him deepstrike at random... Muah! ah! ah! It really throws your opponent off guard the first time. If you have at least 1 lictor, you won't have to worry about those reserve roll. You also need some outflankers and deepstrikers to make him scatter his troops even more.

    I am quoting myself now from an old post:
    Quote Originally Posted by dapredator66
    I tried in my last game vs deamons: I let him played the first turn and I did not deploy (only outflank, deepstrike and reserve). The game was a draw, but it messed up his deployment (he had to guess where I would fight him) and I gained the initiative to attack him in close combat while bombarding him from two sides. CC was pretty bloody but by deploying in reserve 1 unit of bloodletter, 1 unit of plaguebearer, a keeper of secret, 1 unit of flamer and 1 unit of flying carpets? never saw combat since they were not positionned correctly (bloodthirster did smash through 3 warriors and 8 spinegaunts[without number])
    Small notes I took after the games:
    - Deamons are good in CC but do not have any ranged weapons. Your Hive Tyrant has some and he moves really fast with wings. Take advantage of that, play by your own terms. I would advise against a CC Tyrant, try to use a long range Sniper Tyrant (Deathspitters and Barbed Strangler will make sure he stays out of combat).

    - If you really want to kill a greater deamon in combat, use two tyrants(or fexes, any nasty MCs) with at least one lash whip + implant attack and anything else you throw at him.

    - Gaunts are meatshield for your Warriors and genestealers (or the above two MCs) to get a counter-charge/get one more round of shooting.

    - Warriors/genestealers, make them cheap and plenty. Use deathspitters/scyting talons on the warriors.

    - 8 Gaunts with without number are useful in close combat (he charges, kills them, you get them on the map again near that objecfitve).




    If you want to deploy, stay concentrated in one point, preferably high ground (you are loosing the initiative by doing so). Use gaunts as shields, take some dual shooting/CC warriors and fex and also use outflanking genestealers to get to objectives early. He will need to split his force to get your stealers while your main force will take a heavy hit. If your lucky, you survive the CC and you capture more objectives.

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    I love the idea of keeping everything in reserve... not so much for the strategy of it, just to see the look on the daemon players face

    'Fex with implant is definatly a good idea...

    The gaunt meatsheild never works for me... they usually finish them off on my turn then bounce into the next unit which makes it impossible to shoot at them. Thats more of my problem then anything, he likes to lock up as many different units as possible then run around with daemonettes and BT stomping all my big bugs.

    Daemonettes are just ridiculously good vs bugs... they get like 80 dice at I6 on the charge with rending...

    Anyways thanks for the suggestions

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    Tyranid Warrior Fanatic Phalanx's Avatar
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    A unit of CC daemons is practically guarenteed to kill off a unit of 8 gaunts. Lets see... They need 5 kills against the gaunts to wipe the unit on average.

    For 'nettes charging: 5*2/1*3/2*6/5*1/4=4.5 daemonettes needed to kill the unit of gaunts on the charge on average, without even including rending provided the gaunts kill none (and with only 3 attacks the odds are pretty good that they won't kill any).

    For BLs on the charge:
    5*6/5*3/2*1/3= 3 BLs needed on average.

    If he doesn't kill the gaunts, something is wrong.

    Also, he can't consolidate into a new combat. If he kills the unit of gaunts then he's no longer in combat.
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    I usually run a 16 gaunt squad size... maybe the 8 will help more with that.

    It's not that he's consolidating into me... the assault is just finishing up on the end of my turn leaving him to fleet into the next squad.

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