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Hey, Im new and need some questions answered.
1.Do bright lances prove effective against monstrous creatures and heroes?
-are they the best thing for knocking out armor?
2.Scatter Lazers Vs. dedicated transports (im thinking marine rhinos), how do they hold up in that fight?
3.Star cannon equipped Vyper jet bikes, or is there a better all purpose (armor or infintry) blaster?
-mostly for transports, but with the hopes it kills infantry also.
4.Eldar missile laucher VS dedicated transports, how do they hold up?
5.If you had the option to take 3 warwalkers or 3 D-cannons, what would you take?
MY LIST IS AS FOLLOWS:
falcon (Stones, holo, brightlance)
-5 eldar warlocks (1 enhance, 4 destructors, 4 spears)
-1 farseer (stones, guide)
3x vypers (stones, holo, starcannons)
3x vyper (stones, holo, starcannons)
3x warwalkers (3xstones, 6xscatterlazers)
3x warwalkers (3xstones,3xbrightlance, 3x shurcannon)
9xswooping hawks+exarch (sunrifle,skyleap,intercept)
7x scoprions +exarch (1 chainsaber, both exarch powers)
This all takes up 1982 points. 1095 for actual items and 887 for items.
The idea is to have a perfectly rounded anti- everything army. to use 3x walkers (brightlance and cannon)and 3x vypers (starcannon) to take the middle of the field and play shoot out with there army while the falcon (which has anti-armor ability but is mainly an infintry killer, using the warlocks) is supported by the three other vypers and walkers.
Artillary or support placements are bombarded with swoopinghawks and there granades and the scorpions do what scorpions do best, kill people. If there is no support placments the swooping hawks help flank with the falcon group.
I CAN ADD OR SWITCH OUT SOME PIECES WITH THESE:
40 guardians (2 flamers and 1 brightlance)
2 more scorpions
5 dark reapers
a wrath lord
I just cant find a use for them.
PLEASE ANSWER MY QUESTIONS USING NUMBERS AS I DID, not in paragraph form, AND CRITIQUE MY LIST. thank you.
1. Yes, brightlances are effective against monstrous creatures and heroes (especially the latter since they tend to cause Instant Death) and yes, they are the most effective thing for dealing with armour.
2. It really depends what vehicle it's on, because if it's on a War Walker with BS3 it will have far less chance of damaging the vehicle than if it's on, say, a Wraithlord with BS4. As it stands however, there's a pretty good chance (1 in 2 with BS3) of scoring a glancing or penetrating hit against a Rhino with AV11 so you could do worse than to try.
3. Fire Prisms are probably the best all-round unit in the game if you use 2 of them. Vypers are a waste of time, space and points.
4. Krak missiles against dedicated transports, there is a 2 in 3 chance of scoring a glancing or penetrating hit against a Rhino assuming you hit in the first place so again there's a pretty good chance of damaging it.
5. War Walkers without a shadow of a doubt. You can have a full squad of 3 armed with weapons of your choice to make them effective against all units, they have a greater range and are tougher and more versatile than D-Cannon platforms and when you think about it, a Warwalker armed with 2 Scatter Lasers is only 10 points more than a D-Cannon platform. A squad of 3 warwalkers with Scatter Lasers is only 30 points more than its D-Cannon equivalent and then you're looking at 36 scatter laser shots a turn. That's some serious firepower.
Unless of course you mean a Cobra D-Cannon in which case that's a different matter entirely...
On to your list:
You have no Troops for a start, that much is glaringly obvious. You need 2 Troops choices, you have none. That needs sorted for starters. Then we'll move on to the issue of Vypers, which as I've explained are a waste of points, time and space. I'd get a couple of Fire Prisms in there, taking out at least one WW squadron, and replace the Scorpions with Banshees - they're far better. With the points you gained from taking out the Vypers, that should just about leave space for 2 Dire Avenger squads which covers your troops. And don't use Guardians, they're useless.
And how on EARTH does that list come to 1982 points?
Hope that helps.
The vypers are not a complete waste of space but if you run them please don't put upgrades on them the stones are useless because of the squadron rules and the holofields are way to many points to protect an open topped AV 10 vehicle (the upgrades on them is probably why the list is so expensive). I generally use vypers with an EML for long range support (not that I use them alot). EML is probably the most all around weapon with the option of krak or plasma. The scatter laser WW are great not sure if I would pair the BL with the cannons maybe EML to give you two weapons that have a chance of hurting the AV they would be shooting at. And most important get 2 troops into the list. Lastly hawks are generally not worth the points they cost, there are some people that love them though.
1. Dont take vypers
2. Nothing in the eldar army should have holofields but a fire prism or falcon.
3. Nothing should have spirit stones but a wave serpent or maybe falcon.
4. NEVER MIX WEAPONS ON WAR WALKERS. Your 3 scatter laser war walkers are fine.
5. You dont need spirit stones on a farseer if you dont take two powers.
6. Dont take guide if you have your farseer in a seer council close combat squad. I recommend fortune or doom or both if you still want the spirit stones.
7. You dont need 4 destructors, 3 is fine, give the other warlock embolden.
8. All your warlocks dont need spears.
9. Swooping hawks almost never win back their points and their grenade launchers dont really work well against anything but horde, if you really want to take them, take a small squad of 5 and dont go crazy with upgrades. You could get a squad of dire avengers fully equpped in a decent wave serpent for the cost of that 10 man hawk squad.
10. Read the force organization chart, you need troops, at least 3 in a 2000 point list if you want to be effective, 4 is highly recommended.
11. D cannons suck because they scatter 2 d6 inches now, we have much better, mobile heavy support.
12. Starcannons are overpriced, there are many more cost efficient remedies for heavy armor targets: fire dragons, fire prisms, high volleys of fire from bladestorm, war walkers, doom the unit etc.
13. Scorpions are ok, but banshees are probably better. If you do take infiltrating scorps your exarch needs a claw. I personally use chainsabres when I use them, but I outflank or transport them and so have more choice of who I assault; you need to be able to counter anything with them, including armor.
14.You have 22 models in a 2000 point list, you could go up against an ork army with around 150 models, or a imp guard with over 7-8 tanks. You need more units.
15. Consider getting a wave serpent for the seer council, its as survivable as a falcon with energy fields, and much cheaper. You also free up a heavy support slot.
Last edited by TheBurningHand; May 17th, 2009 at 04:56.
The Hand that guides.
1. Take vypers if they fit your play style or you have used all your HS slots and want something similar to warwalkers.
3. I would add fireprism to the list but agree that vypers and warwalkers don't need them
4. In general I agree, at the very least make both weapons usefull for what the walkers are going to be shooting at most of the time.
6. In general I agree but the vypers could keep up for a couple of rounds for guides and a guide first round for the warwalkers is almost worth the cost of guide.
7. feel that is personal taste but it is a good suggestion for the reroll of powers if nothing else
8. Personal taste again but I agree (if it was a smaller warlock unit without enhance then the spears would fit better)
9. Hawks are personal taste, I do feel that against a I.G. horde army they could really build a rather impressive kill count. But in general I agree that they are not worth how much they cost.
10. Totally agree
11. D cannons always scattered 2d6 didn't they? The short range and the change to LoS and the number of outflank deepstriking units has made them a very hard choice to defend (but when the barrage hits it really is fun)
12. I've toyed with starcannons some and they can work well at what they are designed for (hunting great save units) but they are a bit over priced. Some people use them to great effect but not my taste.
13. The banshees would need a transport and scorpions are better working without farseer support than the banshees are, again personal taste.
14. Agreed but if the upgrades to the vypers are removed there should be a decent number of points to get another unit or two.
15. The falcon has always done well for me with the holo fields, it gets hit more often but generally takes more overall firepower before it drops, against melee or rear shots the falcon is much better. (this is my opinion no math hammer to back it up)
I basically agree with all of your additions, you made some very good points.
I still think vypers are really not needed in any eldar army sans Saim-Hann (and just because of fluff), just because 1) theyre open topped 2) there are many better units to spend points on. I dont necessarily hate the idea of vypers, just dont like a squad that can be shredded by bolters (because of open topped, a bolter has 1/3 chance to kill a vyper on the damage result table [immobilised/wrecked]).
Sounds a bit like you need to read the codex more, scan the forums more, and read the 40k rulebook just a bit more (force organization). After playing a few games you will discover with a little finesse you can work wonders with eldar, but never forget that with one or two mistakes you can cripple your army on turn 1. That could be said about most armies, but its especially evident when playing eldar.
The Hand that guides.