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  1. #1
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    New DE player; where to start?

    Good day to all!
    I have decided to start on DE as an alternative to my nice clean marines; I help my son and his friends play nice, so I want my 'other' army to be evil, devious and nasty, and a more adult theme. I don't fancy Chaos Daemons though.

    Furthermore, I want to try and buid an army from entirely non-GW models; those of you who know me from Bolter&Chainsword know me as an experimenter!

    I am planning to use malevolent fairy miniatures, of which there are many on the web, giving me the diversity I crave, and will choose WYSIWYG models to help my opponents know what they're playing.

    I have the Codex, and can see that while old (rumours of a codex update seem to be popular but unconfirmed), DE have killer troops, and I have found that I win a lot of my marine games because so many people seem to forget that 2/3 of missions are aaaalllll about the troops!

    I have joined this forum in the hope of learning lists and tactica, before I start buying and painting, so would like some advice from you guys. If AoBR had been marines vs Dark Eldar, what would you have put in? And what next? I'm aiming for 1,000pts before Xmas.

    I know I definitely want lots of "Angels Carrying Savage Weapons" (good corsetier BTW), and want to be very Fast Attack orientated; Wych army, building towards Leilith, and I definitely want warp beasts, as I have loads of modelling ideas for animals.

    Other than that, what's good, what's not? My Marine playstyle has been sweepy; I don't like plod units like dreads, favouring Devs and Scouts for objectives and long range coverage, bikes and troops in transport for challenging. I tend to spam tacs in transport rather than buy expensive elites, on the grounds that one remaining marine can tie up a superkilly squad of enemies, so the more speedbumps I give the enemy, the better.

    I eagerly await your input,

    Dan / Commander Sasha / (Haven't got a DE name yet!)


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  3. #2
    Slave to the flesh The_Outsider's Avatar
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    Welllllllllllllll, you don't need fast attack when you have raiders.

    A wych cult did get a bit of a kicking by 5th ed (wyches are terrible objective holders) but it is a monstrous assault force.

    They key point for such an army (to play upon the angels with guns thing) is whether or not you can stomach taking scourges - with lances they are loltastic (and not in a good way) but splintercannon scourges pump out a lot of fire, the problem being is the yare stupidly expensive next to the frankly insane ravager.

    The list I would take at 1K would be something like-

    Lelith
    8 wyches (total) as retinue: wych weapons, palsma grenades
    Succubus: agoniser and trophy racks
    Raider horrorfex

    8 wyches (total) as retinue: wych weapons, palsma grenades
    Succubus: agoniser and trophy racks
    Raider horrorfex

    8 wyches (total) as retinue: wych weapons, palsma grenades
    Succubus: agoniser and trophy racks
    Raider horrorfex

    Ravager: triple lance

    Ravager: triple disintegrator

    Spend the remaining points on a small warp beast unit (with the aim to bump it upto size when you hit 1500).


    That is what I would do atleast.

  4. #3
    Resident Mongoose Mongooseo's Avatar
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    In what is probably the most ironic turn of events possible for this army, our fast attack units are not plentiful and not as effective as one would think.
    As Outsider said, who needs fast attack when you ahve raiders? Our entire list is basically fast attack.

    I'll also second Outsider's list, swapping out the disentagrators on the other ravager for dark lances and giving both ravagers night shields. That's probably a matter of opinion, and a product of the tank-happy lists all of my opponenets play.

  5. #4
    Archite of Caerbannog KwiKwag's Avatar
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    I used to feel Wych Cult took a huge hit but the hit was more on list design and strategy - of all the changes in 5th the WWP Wych Cult took the brunt of the change. Once you get your head wrapped around 5th edition and playing the mission I started to win again.

    Although Lelith is one of our better characters even at 1500 (when you can take her) I still do not think she is a good choice yet. She is cheap and quite a bargain but for me the only reason to take her is for her ability to choose the drug of her choice and that has to be done with her taking a retinue. Unfortunately, that retinue could be a troop choice that you will sorely miss at 1500 - I would say take her at 2k so you can ensure you have a decent amount of troops. I personally don't use her any more as I believe even at 2k a normal Archite has more versatility (the ability to take the right amount of drugs to defeat her foe) and thus is more efficient. Where this really is apparent if you consider taking lelith you are creating a 3 kill point unit in an HQ slot where a solo Archite on a wych raider is 1 kill point of HQ but the other 2 kill points is a troops choice (which the Archite and separate from when ever he/she likes - that's flexibilty in my eyes).

    At a 1000 point tournament I took an Archite, 3 wych squads on raiders and 2 ravagers and was able to tie for 1st. Wyches with blasters and with the 2 ravagers I had my anti-armor threat and the lord with any of the wyches was my anti-infantry. Wyches with blasters has really meant a lot to the wych cult list as it created a "duality" role for them - they can pop armor and still deal with the CC lists.

    The only other change I ended up changing was the size of the wych squad - I used to run a squad of 8, now I run 6. Cutting back on the squad size allowed me to add another squad/troop choice and since I never charge a wych squad alone into CC. I have found that 2 wych squads provide 2 agonisers and just enough wounds to take a 10 man marine squad to 3 or 4 marines and that is exactly what I want - I want the battle to go into the marine players turn (providing he doesn't want to break or they fail morale).

    The only time I run 7 or 8 wyches is at 1000 points where its tough to get that additional wych squad in.

    So it comes down to style and a strategy to get the wyches in close so they do not die in raider crashes.

    Good luck and happy hunting!
    "On a hunch, I melted them down and inhaled the fumes and read the dark eldar codex again, AND FOUND A BUNCH OF NEW RULES HIDDEN BEHIND THE OTHER WORDS..." [Gardeth on modelling & interpreting the DE Codex]

  6. #5
    Member LordDnigh's Avatar
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    With Wyches comes the need for raiders...

    And this will make everything quick. They have pretty much wrapped it up, but as a cheap extra I would throw in Warriors... it is my opinion that the more the merrier, and a few squads of 10 with lances covering your Raiders would be a more stable option than the Ravagers, but if you like the skimmers, by all means, take them. There is also nothing better than haywire grenades when playing imperial guard... move your raider as far as it will go, unload the next turn, and let your wyches loose on a cluster of tanks.... nothing like 1/2 naked people blowing up tanks THEN beating up a Commander or two. As for Warp Beasts... awesome idea, wouldn't take them in your army though. Those would be your only ground forces, and chances are, would rarely make it into enemy lines to effect anything. If your looking for cheap terrain holders, consider mandrakes (scout) to get a little closer before being seen, or put your points into... more wyches.

    Happy head hunting. At some point i'll also throw Wych cult tactics up on my website... if I can get around to it.

    Lord Dnigh
    www.lorddnigh.com

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