Welcome to Librarium Online!
Join our community of 80,000+ members and take part in the number one resource for Warhammer and Warhammer 40K discussion!
Registering gives you full access to take part in discussions, upload pictures, contact other members and search everything!
Hello, first I will apologize if there is a similar thread, I could not find one. I am trying to redo my eldar in 5th ed, getting tired of seeing nothing but ig, marine and ork armies, and I had a question about HQ's. I know that a farseer is stock standard for any list but is it madness to take phoenix lords? Are they any better in 5th compared to 4th? I was thinking of taking Jain-zar and Fuegan, as I like the fluff and rules behind both. Is it just too many points for not alot in return? Should I just resign to a cheap Doomseer? Has anyone had good or bad experience with the Phoenix lords?
depending on game size i would just take one pheonix lord. but as far as if they are worth it? absolutely. eternal warriors with BS and WS 7 and S T 5. i used maugan ra and fuegan. both with their aspects did an insane amount of damage. they bad ass especially considering they are usually less then 250. sadly i dont play eldar anymore i play marines lol i liked their fluff. but they are still good in the 5th good luck
A moment of weakness spawns a life tme of heresy...
Though I'm not a master strategist, nor tactician, I can give my own experiences. Thus far, I've used Asurmen, Jain Zar, and Kharandras in games before.
For Asurmen, I say way too expensive for not a lot of return. He has the basic Pheonix Lord Profile, add a Force weapon (which never seemed to kill anything I needed it to kill), and a 4+ invulnerable save. Also, he is the lord of an Aspect that aren't sterling hand-to-hand combatants. So, to me he is a 200+ point above average DA exarch. Not worth it to me.
Now Jain Zar has things going for her as far as I'm concerned. She is the cheapest Pheonix Lord, though still almost 200 points, but there is a lot there. For one she has the Pheonix Lord Profile, but that compliments her weapons. She carries an executioner which becomes Str. 6 and Str. 7 on the charge. Another thing to note as that this is at initiative! With the banshee masks this is at 10, but even then the PLs have init: GOD, so it doesn't matter too much. She also has the Silent Death which is a Str 5 triskele. Bad thing is no inv. save. So she needs a Banshee squad with her if facing off against power weapons. She is, thus far, my favorite Lord to bring. She also has that big hair things which is kind of cool
Kharandras is a monster, plain and simple. Though the most expensive of the lords, he deserves it. He gets more attacks per turn than any other Lord (or model in the codex), though they are generally powerfist attacks so he's going last. This isn't good since he has no inv. save and can get whacked before dishing it out. So it's better to put him in a squad of Scorps (this kills his fleet, but he gives the whole squad Stealth, which means 3+armor/3+cover) For a truly expensive CC bomb, put him and a squad of Scorps in a Serpent and out-flank. Doesn't matter what side you come in on.
Thats my summary of the ones I know. Haven't played with Fuegan, Baharroth, or Maugan Ra.
Arvan'drynn Craftworld - 15,000pts (deceased)
Tau - 2,000 points (atomized while on patrol)
I've used Maugan Ra in a 5 man harlie squad with shadowseer and deathjester. It works decently as a counter charging unit for a gun line type list. It gets a good number of shots at good strength, a possible pinning check and then str 6 power weapon attacks from Maugan Ra and the normal Harlie kiss goodness. The shadowseer keeps them safe from the enemies long range shooting units freeing them up to intercept close range units. Having a great save to put the first shooting wound on helps keep the harlies alive if something happens to slip through the VoT.
I know that one of the LO members has/had a list that uses feugan and he was having alot of success with it. Drop him off with a group of dragons, they kill one tank he kills another. If you can get him into combat with a unit without powerweapons he should work well as he attacks like a MC and has feel no pain so +2 then +4.
Bahharoth has been a big disappointment only cool thing about him is that you can get 4 grenade packs a round with him in the list.
I've never dabbled with the Phoenix lords, 200 points can buy a lot of guns, (or power swords, for that matter) and from what I've heard the Phoenix lords rarely make back their investment. Most do not have invulnerable saves, their skills are pretty impressive but you're basically taking a squad leader that costs more than the squad. You could spend the money on a tank and get more for your points. Jain Zar has some pretty nasty weapons though, if she gave Furious Charge to the squad it might be worth it.
<--------------------- Fuegan Strike Force baby, it can actually work out really well. You drop Fuegan and his fire dragon squad, pop a tank, then next turn assault with Fuegan (fleet) and fly away with the dragons to kill something else. Fuegan soaks up bolters, lasguns, anything rapid fire like a madman, if you use him right hes unstoppable. (just watch out for power weapons)
Also, he has the best chance of wounding a model in the entire game (shooting). He has BS 7 so he hits on a 2+ followed by a 5+ if he misses that 2+. He almost always wounds on a 2+ (s8 melta) and since he has crackshot he rerolls wounds! He also IGNORES COVER.
2+ to hit, 5+ to hit if you miss that
2+ rerolled (anything toughness 6 or below)
ignores armor saves, ignores cover saves
Thats an 87 percent chance to wound a model.
Last edited by TheBurningHand; May 21st, 2009 at 17:39.
The Hand that guides.
Yes, it is most definitely madness to take Phoenix Lords because they're far too many points for what they are and they are of limited effectiveness on the battlefield. Their points would be far better spent elsewhere, say on a couple of Wave Serpents or Fire Prisms that would be far more effective for the points you spend. The only Phoenix Lords I would even contemplate taking in any battle other than an Apocalypse battle with the Court of Khaine would be Jain Zar and Maugan Ra because they're the cheapest and probably the best as well. Asurmen is just ridiculous, I don't understand why anyone would take him considering the only thing he has over most of the other Phoenix Lords is a 4+ Invulnerable save.
Maugan Ra is worth his points. 2nd cheapest, his weapon is assault so he can always move and shoot which makes him way more mobile, he rarely misses, has a lot shots, RENDING which is pretty huge, pinning, good range, high strength. not to mention crack shot blah blah, he's awesome at shooting.
The best thing about him is he's good with reapers, but he's good alone too. I've seen people play him alone and he just kills what needs to be killed from far away, and stays alive between his good regular armor save, his great range, and the fact that enemy big weapons are too concentrated on closer threats. If you're concerned about him being alone but don't have the points for reapers, putting him with a cheap squad of guardians basically gives him 13 wounds and I think their heavy weapon will benefit from his crack and fast shot.
What puts me off about Maugen Ra is that his gun is AP5, not AP3 like the other reapers. He really suffers from being stuck with them, his weapon is assault but theirs aren't, his is 36" but they are 48". He's most effective out on his own but then he's individually targetable.
195 points buys a lot of things, it can get you a fully loaded Falcon or Fire Prism (or almost 2 more-standard Prisms), a full squad of War Walkers with Scatter Lasers and change, another full squad of any troops or elites.
A full choice of Reapers is even cheaper, and none of the phoenix lords have any real game-changing abilities like Eldrad or some of the other race's special characters.
1) Maugan ra only gives his exarch powers to reapers.
2) Fuegan owns.
The Hand that guides.