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Good - Only doing what they must to survive afterall
Evil - Sadistic and cruel, enjoy every minute of raiding/killing.
Bit of both/Misunderstood - No one is perfect
Kindred Spirit - Who doesn't like combat drugs and succubi ?
Do you think Dark Eldar are really truly evil? Do they enjoy every minute of raiding, killing, pillaging, and falling into hedonistic pleasure orgies ?
Or are they simply a bit lost morally, making the best out of a bad situation (brought on them by others perhaps), and doing what they must to survive (trading souls to keep theirs).
Maybe they're a bit of both? They enjoy giving pain and suffering, but given the chance by ridding themselves of Slaanesh, might one day go back to the eldar path or at least stop the senseless violence/hedonism.
Or are they simply just like us? Everyone has vices right? There's nothing wrong with a little bit of some good ol fashioned combat drugs and a lovely succubi to keep you warm at night?
I'm asking this because I often see people calling Dark Eldar evil. I don't really see them as evil necessarily. Most of them(or all?) were children at the time of the Fall and really weren't part of the pleasure cults that were rampant at the time that inevitably caused Slaanesh to form and a large portion of Eldar to die or become Slaanesh's soul-slaves.
Now they're instantly thrust into a situation where they have a choice, give up another person's soul to Slaanesh, or give up yours. Personally, I would do what I had to in order to survive and keep my family/friends/loved ones alive and well. I think they're a bit lost, they've fallen back into old ways with the pleasure-seeking and the torturing, etc, but I think if Slaanesh were out of the picture they would choose a better path. I don't think I can call them good, either now or after Slaanesh is gone, but I really don't believe them to be truly evil (at least not as a whole, there are always evil beings in any group of sentients).
Last edited by paregoric_HAL; May 28th, 2009 at 11:12.
Yes they are evil - they are aware of the suffering they case and enjoy every last moment of it.
To compare DE to orks, an ork boy would rip a human child limb from limb to see if it does anything different than an adult, but there is no malice or understanding of the heinous thing it has committed, thus it is not evil.
A DE would do the same to a child to see it (or any adults watching) suffer, thus they are aware of the what they are doing and it's effects - this makes them evil.
At least, as evil as the english language can make the word apply.
Last edited by The_Outsider; May 28th, 2009 at 15:55.
The Dark Eldar thrive on raiding, killing, torturing, experimenting, and gladiatoral matches. There is no way to call them anything but evil. Their twisted outlook on life and passion for harming things is 2nd only to Chaos... I would add the Orks but it is my opinion that the Ork is simply hungry for war, and destruction, not truely evil, just a zealot for a thing that is seen as such. It is in their blood and mindset to fight, perhaps with no reason, but often because they just plain enjoy it. Very few times, however, will an Ork warboss take 100s of prisoners to Commoragh to... (insert: experiment on, throw in an arena naked, use a a weapons testing target, tattoo with scars to claim ownership, etc...). Yes, the Dark Eldar are evil, pure as tar covered snow, and certainly not remorseful.
For an in depth look at the history of the Dark Eldar:
Dark Eldar History
Lord Dnigh's Armies...
Evil? Compared to what?
The whole of the 40K galaxy is based on rape, pillage and plunder and even the supposed goody two shoes Tau are expansionists at heart with the biggest guns.
Evil compared to Chaos? Where the ultimate reward is death in 99% of cases or a 1% chance of demon hood and guess what, youre a slave to some god anyway.
Evil compared to the Imperium? Don't get me started on how the Inquisition handles affairs between themselves let alone the populace.
Evil compared to Necrons? Oh you mean the race that wants to last forever whatever the carnage.
Evil compared to Eldar? A race of sports gym junkies that invented moral dysfunction.
Evil compared to Sisters? Bunch of sexually repressed flagellants trying to be men.
Evil compared to Orks? Another race that prides itself zero compassion.
I am making a point here? Evil only has a starting point if you can compare to an opposite and in 40K I am having trouble finding one.
Misunderstood I can handle, they are Xenos after all and almost all literature is written from an Imperial point of view so its never going to understood.
I think that when Dark Eldar make a raid on a world they see it like we would be 'going to the fridge for some milk and cookies,' rather an everyday event to them since its what they do.
But to spice up their daily drudge along the way they do it with flair, you know, turn the radio on in the Raider, ride up the back with their mates and yell obscenities at whoever they pass.
Its a typical saturday drive by for them as they go to the mall and select what they want, but evil?
In whose eyes?
In a controversy the instant we feel anger we have already ceased striving for the truth, and have begun striving for ourselves.
While you seem to be an avid poster, and well respected, though I haven't been on here much, you must really take a look at the story behind the Dark Eldar, this history is not written from the point of view of the imperium, just simply with their system of time. This is the true and vivid past of the Dark Eldar which mentions the way their minds were twisted and they thrived on leaving the warp where they knew they were no longer safe, just to raid and pillage. Evil? Yes. Evil compared to others? Yes. The most evil? Maybe, maybe not. The Dark Eldar most certainly are Evil, and they will continue to be as long as the warp remains their home and continues to torture their souls and twists their minds.
Lord Dnigh's Armies...
A wasp lays its eggs into a host catepillar so when the eggs hatch they can devour the host. Is the wasp considered evil? As gruesome or horrific the act upon the catepillar the wasp is only following its nature - who are we to define nature as "evil" (as the mon-keigh define it). I tend to see the relationship of the Dark Eldar in the Universe the same way.
Another more satisfying analogy is that of picking fruit off a tree - we pluck it because its there and because we can. Honestly, who sheds a tear for the role of the fruit in the order of nature, of the universe? Slice them, gut them, carve them up and stick a candle in them on holloween (devilnacht).
It's all symantics if you ask me - how I pluck the fruit from the tree matters not and its how we pluck it that is the fun part.
Last edited by KwiKwag; May 28th, 2009 at 23:43.
"On a hunch, I melted them down and inhaled the fumes and read the dark eldar codex again, AND FOUND A BUNCH OF NEW RULES HIDDEN BEHIND THE OTHER WORDS..." [Gardeth on modelling & interpreting the DE Codex]
Evil is a point of view.
Some would say the DE are evil some would say they were brought up this way.
Either way you put it,it's you either go raiding to replenish your soul or your soul will be eaten by slaanesh,take your pick?.
Eradicating chav scum since 2005!
We do what we want when we want reguardless of who gets hurt in the mean time. by the by we're Dark Eldar, the true Eldar, since when do we really care what the lesser races think of us. they all crap their pants when they see us coming anyway and thats good enough for me.
"War is crulity. It is of no use trying to reform it. The cruler it is, the faster its over." William Sherman
Some excellent points have been made here. For my part, I'd like to present an analogy I think is poignant. Both Eldar societies literally regard themselves as being on a higher plain of sentience than other races. This is not like how one person would say "I'm better than you." This is more like the relationship between humans and animals. We don't just think we're smarter than a cow or a chicken, we also think that we are people where they are not based on the fact that we have higher thought.
This is the same case when Eldar regard humans, not as real people, but as animals to be used. We slaughter millions of animals for sustenance. Are we evil to do so? Some would say so, but not the majority. In the same way, it's highly questionable whether Dark Eldar can be called evil just for raiding for souls.
But there is definitely something evil in the way they take pleasure in the pain they are exacting. For them, the torture has a distinct purpose (souls are said to be more effective at halting the life drain when they have sufficiently tortured), but their attitudes toward the act go beyond necessity.
So that's my explanation for the vote. In all honesty, there is never a clear cut good or evil in life, and even the literature of Warhammer 40,000 reflects life accurately in this manner. That is why it is folly to describe anyone as pure evil or good in any situation or decent story.
--•-My 40K projects-•--
Thanks for all the replies + poll votes, lot of good input so far.
I will say that I think saying the orkz are simply children playing with their toys when they go on the rampage is a bit far off. There is definitely an evil/cruel streak in some of them and I would even go as far as to say most of them. So if you define the dark eldar as evil I think the orkz fall right in line behind them, maybe not as evil depending on how you look at it, but definitely not the "innocent barbarians" that some are trying to make them out to be.
I had a hard time deciding on the poll choices because of how people define good and evil and whether or not lots of people would choose misunderstood or "a bit of both" because of that.