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    Kill Points and Fearless

    I'm a self-taught player and I just wanted to ask a few questions to make sure me and my brother are playing correctly.

    Kill Points:

    1) For Zoanthropes, I field 3 of them. Do they each count as a seperate kill point?

    2) For a Hive Tyrant and her retinue, do they count as one kill point or two?

    3) If a unit of Winged Warriors dies while trying to deep strike, is that a kill point?

    Fearless:

    1) I just want to make sure we are playing Fearless tyranids correctly. If I lose an assault by like 6, I take 6 more wounds?

    2) In a game we played last night, I charged his unit of 10 terminators and Abaddon. My assault included a unit of warriors and three units of gaunts, with about 10 in each unit. If I lost the battle by 6, does that mean each unit takes 6 more wounds or do I take 6 wounds and spread them between all the participating units?

    Assaulting

    1) During the course of a long assault, eventually Abaddon fell out of coherency because of models being removed for casualties. Abaddon was joined to a unit of terminators. Now in future assault rounds, can the gaunts adjacent to Abaddon declare their attacks are targetting the terminators, even though the gaunts are not adjacent to or even within 2" of the terminators?

    2) On a subsequent turn, I charged the terminators with a unit of Warriors and a Hive Tyrant. On the assault phase that the new units charge, the terminators must still attack the gaunts, correct?

    Thanks!


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    Blood Boy Leech's Avatar
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    Kill points:

    (1) All of your Zoanthropes count as one unit for kill points, they only move and act alone.

    (2) A Hive tyrant and it's retinue count as one unit. They are taken from the army list together and they must remain together. They cannot ever separate and act as units independent from each other.

    (3) If any unit dies they will count as a kill point. Death by deep striking still counts as death so they are considered to of been killed for game purposes they same way a unit can take casualties from dangerous terrain or psychic tests.

    Fearless:

    (1) If you lose an assault then no retreat applies to Tyranids. Fearless is given as an example with the rules for no retreat but it is not the only cause of it. Any special rule such as synapse control will trigger it, in the right circumstances of course.

    (2) The amount of wounds all of your units in the combat take is the amount your side lost by. Your broods count as one big unit for this. You distribute the wounds evenly across all your broods in combat, each brood does not take six wounds each, they are spread out across your broods.

    Assaulting:

    (1) Normally models can end up out of coherency because of assault, you move them back into coherency as soon as possible. If he is out of coherency on purpose then he is no longer part of the unit, he left them.

    (2) The Terminators may attack anybody they are fighting including new attackers. It is usual to hit models in base contact first though. If the Gaunts are in base contact they will get hit first.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rakur View Post
    I'm a self-taught player and I just wanted to ask a few questions to make sure me and my brother are playing correctly.

    Kill Points:

    1) For Zoanthropes, I field 3 of them. Do they each count as a seperate kill point?

    2) For a Hive Tyrant and her retinue, do they count as one kill point or two?

    3) If a unit of Winged Warriors dies while trying to deep strike, is that a kill point?

    Fearless:

    1) I just want to make sure we are playing Fearless tyranids correctly. If I lose an assault by like 6, I take 6 more wounds?

    2) In a game we played last night, I charged his unit of 10 terminators and Abaddon. My assault included a unit of warriors and three units of gaunts, with about 10 in each unit. If I lost the battle by 6, does that mean each unit takes 6 more wounds or do I take 6 wounds and spread them between all the participating units?

    Assaulting

    1) During the course of a long assault, eventually Abaddon fell out of coherency because of models being removed for casualties. Abaddon was joined to a unit of terminators. Now in future assault rounds, can the gaunts adjacent to Abaddon declare their attacks are targetting the terminators, even though the gaunts are not adjacent to or even within 2" of the terminators?

    2) On a subsequent turn, I charged the terminators with a unit of Warriors and a Hive Tyrant. On the assault phase that the new units charge, the terminators must still attack the gaunts, correct?

    Thanks!
    I just want to say this is what i think on all these topics they maybe correct or maybe not. so take what you will from this i hope others will confirm what i said or fix what i have is wrong. But some of these rules dont seem fair to me so i think as always its best to agree to rules before you play. or if you play at the same place alot agree to house rules.

    kill points
    1. I think they count as seporate kill points im not 100% positive on this but i think they shouldnt..

    2. I think the group as a whole would count as one point

    3. Yes i believe if it dies from the mishap that would be a kill point and if the game ends before they make it on the board thats a kill point too.

    Fearless
    1. You take six more wounds which are saveable, but since our saves suck its more likely taking six wounds, yes.

    2. Each unit takes 6 wounds... i think this is the dumbest thing but thats they way it reads. With this gaunts just become that much weaker. and on top of that you might not want to assist the gaunts with strong things for fear of extra wounds.. how dumb is that.

    Assulting
    1. i think that they should be able to swing at anything in range. But also at the end of each round you consolidate together. and at the begining of your movement phase if your not touching anyone you can move 6 more inches toward combat. So im thinking that you can only swing at people within 2 inches (3 inches on gaunts with leaping ) but combat shouldnt get that out of hand after a few turns everyone should be fairly clustered together due to the fact that everyone is required to move towards combat at the end.

    2. The terminators can attack back any one they want as long as they follow initiative order. So they tyrant would go first followed by the warrior if they have + initiative then terminitors( assuming they dont go last for power fists or anything) then gaunts

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    jy2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rakur View Post
    I'm a self-taught player and I just wanted to ask a few questions to make sure me and my brother are playing correctly.

    Kill Points:

    1) For Zoanthropes, I field 3 of them. Do they each count as a seperate kill point
    As they are each independent, then each one counts as a KP. Thus, 3 Zoans = 3KP's.
    2) For a Hive Tyrant and her retinue, do they count as one kill point or two?
    2. Retinues are always an extra KP.
    3) If a unit of Winged Warriors dies while trying to deep strike, is that a kill point?
    Yes
    Fearless:

    1) I just want to make sure we are playing Fearless tyranids correctly. If I lose an assault by like 6, I take 6 more wounds?
    Yes. But you get to take saves for those 6 wounds. It's called No Retreat, and as Leech said, you spread them across your units that were involved in the combat.
    2) In a game we played last night, I charged his unit of 10 terminators and Abaddon. My assault included a unit of warriors and three units of gaunts, with about 10 in each unit. If I lost the battle by 6, does that mean each unit takes 6 more wounds or do I take 6 wounds and spread them between all the participating units?
    Ouch....Abaddon + 10 termies?!? What a total power-gamer. If you lose by 6, you take 6 saves and spread them between all the participating units? You don't take 24 saves!
    Assaulting

    1) During the course of a long assault, eventually Abaddon fell out of coherency because of models being removed for casualties. Abaddon was joined to a unit of terminators. Now in future assault rounds, can the gaunts adjacent to Abaddon declare their attacks are targetting the terminators, even though the gaunts are not adjacent to or even within 2" of the terminators?
    You can't leave a unit while locked in cc. So even if coherency is broken, they will still be considered as 1 unit, and next turn, everyone just piles back in. However. because Abaddon is an IC, those in base contact or within 2" of one in base contact with him can and must attack him. And those in base contact or within 2" of one in base contact with the termies can and must attack the termies. If the model is within 2" of a model in base contact with Abaddon and the termies, then that model can attack either.
    2) On a subsequent turn, I charged the terminators with a unit of Warriors and a Hive Tyrant. On the assault phase that the new units charge, the terminators must still attack the gaunts, correct?
    Yes, since they were engaged in battle with the gaunts at the beginning of the turn, then they must attack them. Also note that your Warriors and HT must be able to get within 2" of a model in base contact with the termies to be able to attack them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jy2 View Post
    As they are each independent, then each one counts as a KP. Thus, 3 Zoans = 3KP's.
    I think thats correct but i think thats dumb since (i think) IG are allowed to take 3 tanks as one force org and that would count as 1 KP how fair is that.

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    Senior Member Zarathustra's Avatar
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    2) In a game we played last night, I charged his unit of 10 terminators and Abaddon. My assault included a unit of warriors and three units of gaunts, with about 10 in each unit. If I lost the battle by 6, does that mean each unit takes 6 more wounds or do I take 6 wounds and spread them between all the participating units?
    Ouch....Abaddon + 10 termies?!? What a total power-gamer. If you lose by 6, you take 6 saves and spread them between all the participating units? You don't take 24 saves!
    I believe you take 6 wounds for each squad. Not that I like it.. but thats the rules as I understand them.
    As of Tyranid 5th Ed. codex I have the Gaunts I wanted. I did, however, loose the sniperfexs I relied upon and they were more important then the gaunts.

  8. #7
    jy2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post
    I believe you take 6 wounds for each squad. Not that I like it.. but thats the rules as I understand them.
    BRB p. 44 (No Retreat!)

    "These units do not take Morale checks and will never fall back. Instead, these units suffer a number of wounds equal to the number their side has lost the combat by (allocated as normal)."
    The way I intepret it is:

    Example
    Gaunt squad #1 lost by 2.
    Gaunt squad #2 lost by 1.
    Gaunt squad #3 lost by 2.
    Tyranid warriors lost by 1.

    Total = tyranids lost by 6.

    So Gaunt #1 takes 2 saves.
    Gaunt #2 takes 1 save.
    Gaunt #3 takes 2 saves.
    TW's take 1 save.

    If each unit had to take 6 saves - that would be a total of 24 saves! They didn't lose by 24 wounds.

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    LO Zealot magnet_man's Avatar
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    Each unit takes a number of saves equal to the number of wounds that side lost by.

    "Instead, these units suffer a number of wounds equal to the number their side has lost the combat by (allocated as normal)." -Main rule book, pg 44

    I can't really see any wiggle room in this rule. It doesn't say "the side suffers wounds", it says "units suffer...". The number of wounds each unit suffers is the number of wounds the side lost by.

    EDIT: Any more debate on this and I would recommend a new thread in the rules section with a link in this thread.
    Last edited by magnet_man; June 2nd, 2009 at 03:32.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jy2 View Post
    The way I intepret it is:

    Example
    Gaunt squad #1 lost by 2.
    Gaunt squad #2 lost by 1.
    Gaunt squad #3 lost by 2.
    Tyranid warriors lost by 1.

    Total = tyranids lost by 6.

    So Gaunt #1 takes 2 saves.
    Gaunt #2 takes 1 save.
    Gaunt #3 takes 2 saves.
    TW's take 1 save.

    If each unit had to take 6 saves - that would be a total of 24 saves! They didn't lose by 24 wounds.
    One reason i heard that it would be each squad taking 6 wounds is this:

    If three normal squads that arnt fearless lost an assult and had to take its leadership against a 6 wound loss, each squad on that side would take a leadership -6... not 6 point loss divided 3 ways ie: -2 leadership per unit.

    Believe me i dont want it that way but as far as i can see it is. It makes the gaunts which suck already and are over priced (when compared to ork boys and many other things) that much worse..

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    it would be ludacris to have 6 wounds per unit. it would HEAVILY discourage multiple assaults. you would be praying for the victory, or know that your stuff is going to die.

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