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Since its widely accepted, that Ethereals are useless, I'm thinking of taking Shadowsun.
However, I'm not too sure if I want to place her in a team ( stealth suits ) or not.
All suggestions/comments/opinions are welcome.
I would definetely not take her in a stealth team. Heck, I wouldn't take her at all.
Considering anything equal to or above STR 6 will cause instant-death, she is extremely easy to kill. "But her drones, 4+ invulnerable and stealth field generator will protect her right?" Wrong. Her drones can be easily killed off with light weaponry of any kind, then she's vulnerable. The 3+ armor save is pathetic for her points; again light weapons put her down without breaking a sweat (so to speak).
Her stealth field generator can help from long range attacks. The problem is that she has 2 Fusion Blasters, meaning she operates at very close range.
So as far as I can see, the only way to properly use her is with her command-link drone. At this point, yeah it helps but not all that much and it's definetely not worth her points. You could get any one of the following for roughly her points.
- 25 Kroot
- 6 Pathfinders and Devilfish w/ DP and multi
I could go on and on but you get the idea. She follows the Tau philosophy of "Unique characters have to be really bad." If you want to take her to add character/fluff to your army, that's a different story. From a power gaming standpoint, don't take her.
Last edited by MorbidlyObeseMonkey; June 2nd, 2009 at 15:52. Reason: Fixed a typo.
I must disagree with that, MorbidlyObeseMonkey. Shadowsun is quite effective if used correctly (and I did so in a 1500 v. Smurfs today).
1) She is 3+/4++ with a ton of ablative wounds. The number of weapons that can instant-kill her and be able to saturate her defenses is astoundingly small. As long as you're smart and don't leave her out in the open, she will nearly always make it to melta range of at least one major target. She can soak a stupid amount of fire without falling, as long as you're smart about wound allocation (hint: small arms go on her first).
2) She fires Fusion Blasters, true, but two of them at very high BS. Whatever she points at, dies. They can and will splat terminators and special characters (anything other than a MC, really), and the two shots together are virtually guaranteed to neuter or destroy any vehicle in existence other than a Monolith (55% chance to penetrate AV14).
3) She can Deep Strike, and you can't forget the Jetpack move. 12 inches isn't much, but 18 is another story. The jump move can get her behind cover, or just help her advance more quickly. If you get a Pathfinder Devilfish into LOS, you can just drop her 5" behind a vehicle of your choice and blow it away.
In all, I find her to be a very effective use of those points, and I don't usually get to use her leadership bubble due to range (most suits I run are Deathrains). Oh, one note, you can't team her with a stealth squad until her drones are dead, since she doesn't become an IC until that happens.
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Snow Forces of T'olku W/L/D : 3-4-2... I like to think I'm learning, though.
That's 1 for 1...
I think that as an offensive threat she's more trouble than she's worth. You really have to build your list and your entire tactical approach around her if you expect to make it worth your while to pay for such an expensive character. And in the end, fusion blasters are great, but we've got ready access to railguns as it is. As for melta weapons, I've been extremely satisfied with piranhas for melta delivery systems; I don't think they make a good fit as battlesuit kit for mech/mobile Tau, which prefers to stay farther away than hand-shaking distance.
(ASIDE: Take a pair of piranhas, and you have lots of options. Play keep-away in reserve, bring them on for sudden game-changing moves. Or deploy normally and zip down a flank to create immediate threat. Or deploy normally and drive them together right in front of the enemy to block those dreads or land raiders from advancing toward you. Piranhas are expendable, but if they aren't destroyed, those fusion blasters will wreck stuff right quick!)
The best use of Shadowsun is probably for her 18" LD bubble. It's expensive -- but isn't everything in the Tau army? -- but her stealth field will keep her safe, and if the enemy gets too close you've got the option to use her in a supporting role while ensuring that your army doesn't panic off the table.
ninjabackhand: point and click, again, really? even after i give you an military term "shock tactic" you still call it point and click.
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The real thing to watch out for with SS is assaults, many units can cover 18" no problem so you have to be incredibly careful when positioning her.
If she hits a tank at 6" she is more than likely going to at least stop it firing and her two Fusions are going to be nice against those squadrons.
What you have to remember with Shadowsun is it does not pay to use her as a lone unit,in fact it makes no sense. You have to use her in concert with other units for her to be effective, using her with a two XV8 Fireknife unit will make both units more effective and the XV8 unit can use her LDS for any tests.
Next we come to her LDS bubble, An 18" 360 degree bubble is a very large area of the table and the bubble is measured from the Drone so you can use the three Drones to place the CC Drone 6" from Shadowsun to extend the bubble towards units that you intend to benefit from the LDS boost.
Leadership 10 units, read that again, one of the main problems Tau as an army has is its average LDS units. Fire Warriors for instance are LDS8 maximum, with negative modifiers this can result in a unit testing on say LDS 6, using SS leadership means that test is carried out on LDS8, a very big difference. SS leadership can be used for pinning tests, moral tests caused by shooting or assaults.
In objective based missions you can place her in cover near an objective and bee assured that your unit on the objective is going to be hard to shift. Her LDS buuble is not to be underestimated in its usefulness.
Three Sunforges with twin linked Fusions, TA's, one team leader with HW target lock would cost 169pts. Yep you would get three shots at two separate targets but you would not have the survivability. To get the same survivability you would need to take two Shield Drones and three Shield Gens but this would mean no Targeting arrays. The unit would then cost a whopping 224pts but would only be firing at BS3. SS is a 6 wound unit the same as the Sunforge unit.
So no you cannot get better accuracy, harder to kill for cheaper. To get the same sort of accuracy you sacrifice survivability but it costs you pretty much the same as SS and to get survivability you pay a hell of a lot more and have crap accuracy. Not as clear cut as you state is it.
SS also has that nice LDS boosting ability which the Sunforge unit does not.
ManOpener: If you want to use SS she is not a bad unit. Her LDS boosting ability can be a real game winner; however if you focus on this you really do curtail her offensive capabilities. With canny tactical play you can do damage with SS and still keep her alive to boost LDS of units that need the help.
If you do use her in an offensive roll you must use her with other units. I know she cannot join other units but her stealth field actually makes her more survivable than other independent characters and her LDS is usable by the unit she is near if the CC Drone is alive (which is the same as using an attached IC's LDS).
I quite like SS and I am considering using her in my 2000pt lists. I would not use her for tournie lists because I would simply stick with the Shas'Els because use of points is more important in tournies. Also do not forget that Shadowsun becomes an IC when her Drones die, so stick her in a unit of XV8's or Stealth's and use her as pure offence.
I would say go for it and use her in larger points games.
Oh and number6 can we stop with the incessant Piranha plugging. She asked about Shadowsun, what have Piranhas got to do with SS (even with their questionable Fusions). We get that you love Piranhas already.
Last edited by Rikimaru; June 2nd, 2009 at 21:01.
Last edited by MorbidlyObeseMonkey; June 3rd, 2009 at 01:15.
SS has a lot of defensive features you simply do not find on most models and she is tough to kill when used properly. Do not rely on the Stealth field, play her as if she does not have one and you will be surprised.
I was in a apoc mega battle with my crisis suits and one of the other guys had Shadowsun with her shield drones. We were amazed that she was still on the table by the end of the game, along with 1 of her drones. They had managed to survive 1 Space wolf tact squad, whiping them out and then an iron fist terminator squad. The tact squad didn't even kill one of her drones. The guy was rolling extremely luckily that day. I on the other hand kept getting beat down by airial bombings...
That being the only time I've seen her in action. I'd say hell yeah take her. But because it was the only 1 time i've seen her being played I can not base a yay or neh off that.