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What is the deal with our warriors!? I've been getting back into this army, and because of 5th ed. I find myself being forced to spent almost 50% of my points (because thats the number you need to get a decent number of scoring units) on warriors who, in my games, do nothing useful. Which is sad, because I like the models. But, in the past two games I've had what's happened was:
10 Warriors, with splinter cannon, blaster and agoniser, disembark, shoot at a unit of 5(!) marines and charge. Lose combat by 2 still, and flee. Then get cut down. That marine unit only costed about 60% of the price I was paying for those warriors. This annoys me, because warriors are one of my favourite Dark Eldar units, but it seems for me that they just can't perform.
Two units assault a plague marine unit which is on 4 men. My Agonisers were killing off about 1.5 a combat phase. Fair enough. My warriors were doing diddly. They ended up taking about 5 models to the grave with them. Really, if we're taking warriors as agoniser platforms, you may as well just take 6x5 in raiders. But then that screws up killpoints >.<
If they shoot, most armies have plenty that will ignore their save, and if they assault, well, they suck at it. To be frank.
I'm in a bit of a tiff with them at the moment, but I wont stop using them. I love warriors. And I'm determined to make them work. But I don't know how.
Please make me love them again?
Well, at the end of the day, did you win?
The Dark Eldar are ruthless, psychotic jerks who would be perfectly happy with sending lesser minions to die miserably, thinking they have a chance when in they're gonna get the business end of Papa Nurgle whilst agoniser boy cleans up the mess.
Nurgle Marines are very difficult to hurt - T5, 3+ armour and Feel No Pain means that you should really expect them to shrug off Warriors. With those guys, when I fought them, I just hung back and shot them, whilst camping in cover, then sending in a dedicated CC unit - Lords do it well, and I have a penchant for Reavers with a Succubus with Punisher (god bless the new Errata). They're also a perfect target for disintegrators, any Ravager on the field armed in such a way should train those Dissies straight into their stinking faces.
Regular marines are also difficult, albeit not to the brutal extent that Nurgle marines are. Bear in mind a marine is easily worth twice as much as a warrior, and they are too points wise - so discounting special weapons, it was a reasonably even fight. How many did your shooting kill?
The thing with Dark Eldar is, we're Str and toughness 3 on average. If we want to take down stuff, we want to make sure it's well and truly crippled before we run in to finish it off. 5 marines are actually pretty damn good, only stuff that's reasonably good at CC, like a few Ork Boyz, would I really want to throw at them. Warriors for me are always the guys that shoot and whittle things down for other stuff to charge at, then send in to finish things off.
The best way to field Warriors is to put them in a Raider - great mobility, a dark lance, at least some degree of protection (although very little) for very few points. In the past, I've played all-mech lists using lots of Warriors mounted in Raiders and I've had a great deal of success. Footslogging Dark Eldar not only doesn't really fit the theme of a superfast raiding force that strikes quickly and without warning but it also plays far better on the field. The only unit I ever field footslogging is Mandrakes for obvious reasons
I've had some luck engaging marines with warrior squads, but only if they are acting as backup for my wych squads as close range fire support or just another wound or two in combat. My most effective warrior units are the standard sniper squads, who seem (for my dice rolling at least) to absorb spectacular amounts of punishment even in 5+ cover and pass every leadership taken so far.
I do not understand this whole thread, I used to shoot up terminators.
Why would You assault s/cs marines? That is why You have the wytches.
Just fly rounds and shoot up everything, attract the fire till Your wytches/lords are in place. Then assault.
Even the footslogging warriors are good, but only in large numbers and splinter cannons. Move-shoot.
Next time, shoot termies, You will be delighted just do not forget to watch the opponent`s face!
Psychic: Yes, but my warriors did almost nothing. It was the Ravagers and Archon/Wyches that did most of the killing. The shooting tends to kill a model, maybe two, then it's assault. In the example with the 5 marines I took them down to 4 models, and got run down.
DiW I also field mine in raiders. Recently I've taken to running one unit in a raider and 3 sniper squads, and then taking 3x7 wyches, 3 ravagers, and a punisher archon however.
Mongooseo: I agree with you on the sniper squads. They are my bread and butter troop in my revised list.
Fremen. I assault marines because I stand a better chance of survival than shooting them. Bolters will kill my squad far faster than marines will in CC. Not to mention flamers or heavy weapons.
"Shooting up" with warriors requires getting close to have any kind of firepower. That means a raider in rapid fire range. Which usually means death, as the raider dies, then the warriors are left stranded.
i use warriors to assault marines all the time.. but only when i have 2 agonizers with them. 1 squad on 1 squad is bad news but 2 on 1 can work.
i view my army though as being composed of some dracons and sybarites with lots of extra wounds to spare(warriors).
granted, fifth edition hurts when you take leadership at -6 but i find the old 2 warrior squads against 1 marine squad still works fine almost every time. and i save the dracons for things like plague marines/HQ squads/general heavy hitters.
15 warriors attacking marines should still yield 1 or 2 wounds, and 2 sybarites should get 1 or 2 more.. if any at all died in shooting and/or you don't roll horrid while they roll great, combat should be won by the warriors as all those wounds come before the marines get to attack back.
but i'm not going to contradict the previous posters who say shooting them is the way to go.. with horrorfexes, dissies, and destructors you have lots of options.. but assault can still be viable with warriors is my point. i wiped the floor with nurgle chaos marines a month ago and had not one incubi in my list.
Just a thought, but what if you held back on the speedy DE sucker punch and get the opponent to commit to coming forward for a turn? It sounds like you are taking the fight to them at all costs.
SM and CSM players, in my limited experience, tend not to bother with cover because power armour makes them dumb, and with 5th ed there is more of a chance that they now have to actually move to get to objectives.
I've used 14 man warrior squads to draw them forward, bathed them in rapidfire splinter,blaster, SC and DL fire and for me it certainly whittled down opposing advances to a good size. They will assault me, I will lose as is written in the codex as there weakness but what is left can't deal with my assault specialist that has been hanging back, that has got the speed, that has got the initiative for first hit.
Use the warriors like an undertow and then smash with the Tsunami.
Also when your warriors shoot well make sure you give them a loving pat on the top notch. Some noggin rubbin makes for plenty of lovely fives and sixes.
Having been on the receiving end of well-played Dark Eldar in a tournament, it's not the Warriors that do damage it's the Dis-Integrators on their Raiders. This guy went on to win the tournament and he only fielded minimal Warrior squads w/ Dark Lances so as to maximize the number of Raiders he was able to take.
Last edited by counterwavecounter; June 7th, 2009 at 10:12.
"The man in the bowler hat is Mr. Average in his anonymity. I, too, wear one; I have no great desire to stand out from the masses." - Rene Magritte
Ok, back on warriors. Played 2 games with raiders w/ warriors. But against tau. God, it's hell. I seem to be really unlucky with DE. I did more damage to the vehicles in combat than I did with all my lances and blasters (S4 Wyches). But that aside, the warriors see some use against Tau. And I imagine guard and tyranids too. What I think would make warriors good would be giving them dissies... That'd fix them. But anyway.
I think the best way to field warriors is shooty. They can assault, but they're not very good at it. See, an army like eldar, that (when played close combat) relies on isolating parts of the enemy army then crushing them with overwhelming firepower, can do so, because with their tanks, they can survive the firepower that comes their way the turn before they charge in. However, we do not have this luxury.
Another example is wood elves. They rely on isolating portions of the enemy army and then obliterating them. However, they have tools at their disposable to make them literally unhittable. And cover is a bit better in fantasy (my opinion).
So, looking at this, if we run our warriors up, all they need to do is shoot the raider. Chances are it will explode (open topped is horrible for this) and this usually killed ~half the squad inside. Ok, fine I have another 6. 5. 3. 2. Really, my army seems to be about hurting units enough for the archon to mop them up, maybe a few won combats, and then just pray i have enough left at the end. Although, I'm ridiculously unlucky with my lances.