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Hi, I'm going into my first tournament. I've read about how people who play chaos space marines a lot of times bring double-lash lists. I've actually played against a single-lash list before with my space marines, and my opponent dominated me.
For those not familiar, a double-lash list is a CSM list where there are 2 HQ's, each using Lash of Submission. They'll use it to move you into rapid fire/assault range, bunch you up for some plasma cannon/ordnance shots, use it to keep you from assaulting them, or pull you off objectives. It's a real headache.
Any suggestions on how to deal with them? Thanks.
My list that I'm thinking of using: http://www.librarium-online.com/foru...ml#post1472149
Right, Tourney-Style Lash Lists tend to have these in:
2x Daemon Princes with mark of Slaanesh (I6) and Lash of Submission
2x Medium/3x Small Units of Plague Marines (Possibly with Rhinos?)
3x Heavy Support choices out of Vindicators and Defilers (Usually 2 Vindies 1 Defiler, or 3 Vindies)
Now, the plan usually hinges around the Daemon Princes moving your units together, and then obliterating them with the heavy guns.
The Plague Marines are basically there to sit on objectives and not get shifted (T4(5), 3+ Armour, 4+ FNP), they've also got defensive grenades, so watch it. There's also more than likely going to be a power fist in there somewhere.
You're going to need to prioritise your targets effectively in order to win. Swamp the Daemon Princes with gaunts or suchlike, as I don't think they can cast Lash it once they're in cc - or at least, that's how I've always played it. Then, use your monstrous creatures to stomp some tanks.
In objectives games, your best bet is to swamp them with WoN gaunts, as once they're in combat they can't claim the objective. You can at least get a draw that way.
Now, having seen your list, imho, there are a few tweaks...
* Combat Flyrant will be your friend. Give him an Implant Attack, Toxic Miasma, Adrenal Glands of both Flavours, 2x ScyTals, Toxin Sacs, Warp Field. He's a DP hunter - he'll be going at least simultaneously, and the implant attack will make sure that any wounds that get past the 5+ inv will count (4 wound DP only needs to be wounded twice...)
* If you can, take two, then go tag-team a DP with them. Or Take an I8 Broodlord, and go show DPs how to be fast... Either way, Implant Attack will be your friend.
* Actually, taking a combat flyrant for vehicle stomping and a Broodlord for DP assassination probably isn't that bad an idea.
* Drop the scythe tails on the carnifexes. Most units are going to be so small you won't get to use them. (I always used to take units of 5 plague marines, and they were fine - but they made the scythe tails kinda redundant.
* 2 Lots of 10 WoN termagants will be plenty.
* For your Zoanthropes, I'd just go with Synapse Creature and Warp Blast.
* Maybe drop a Dakkafex and take more WoN Termagants/Spinegaunts?
Well, hope that helps. Good luck!
There is one problem i have with gorilla_dan's advice. That you only have 2 units of troops and as there termagants they wont last long, i know if keep them in synaps range wont run off, but honestly how hard is it to kill them, its not. So claiming objectives would be very hard work and make the list suddenly risky. Also as a tordement list with only 2 troop choices which or pritty soft your going to have a tough ride. Normally players take 3-4 troops choices. Everything else said very good advice vs lash, but remember at the end of the day you have to be able to claim objectives as well.
"Should take you a while though because of your sloth like pace"
Click here and watch Gedderz try and cross the road
I've just realised that, having said "2 lots of 10 Termagants will be enough", I then later said "Maybe drop a Dakkafex and have more gaunts". Whoops. Moral of the story: Stream-of-consciousness style posts often make less sense
I'd go with the second of the two (and also agree with Gedderz here), and take 4 units of 10 WoN Termagants, and drop one of the Dakkafexes.
i regularly play against a gamer with a very similar list to this and the way ive found to beat it is with too many targets. example a carnifex, tyrant broodlord and hormagaunt squad are all in an offensive position, he not going to be able to lash them all, so youll be able to assault soemthing. if you can simply tie up the princes in combat, 3+ save isnt great even if it is T5. Alternatily if you are running the right things, a shadow scream works very well, 3 zoans with psyscream and a SOTW tyrant will make a right mess of this list, but tooling your list for this isnt a great idea
Last edited by Heirodule; June 11th, 2009 at 16:14.
I haven't played against this list (my only local CSM player plays 1k sons) but if I were to face it, I would take a flyrant or two to kill off the DP and hopefully then take out the vindicators, then I would take a brood or two of winged rippers because if my flyrant gets taken down somehow, the rippers can tar pit a prince or two before the rest of my forces get there. A couple sniper fexes wouldn't hurt either. They can shake the vindis or pick a few wounds off the daemon princes.
Good luck and may the Hive Mind be with you!
Craps. Just found out my Nidzilla list is illegal. Gotta go assemble/paint some tyranid warriors now to replace my dakkafexes.
Take "Shadow in the warp" power to annoy those two DP's. All of a sudden their powers aren't that realiable any more! Add some "Psychic Scream" in the mix to decrease the Ld of the DP's to further shutdown their Lash powers!
A flyrant with implant attack to hunt the PD's should be able to take out a single DP with a charge. Same things applies to stealers (expensive however when you want to add implant to these guys too!) and Broodlord.
Mechanical Chaos Spiders are just anoying, because you can't shake them, making VC's less of an option to prevent those Defilers from blowing you to smithereens. Only Tyrants in melee can realiably take these things out. Carnies can do it too, but they are guaranteed to take damage first.
Take a lot of simple gaunts instead of big squads. So if you would normally have a 25 brood, spilt it into smaller pieces. This way you prevent the Lash to be extremely dangerous for blast weapons on these guys. Maybe gauntwrapping might help a bit. He has to choose to keep the cluster with a cover save, or try to peel them from each other, which will probably still fail and will give you cover saves still.
I think 2 units of genes, a flyrant, 2 gunfexes, zoanthropes and gaunts&warriors (to keep the gaunts in control) will probably do pretty well.
Tyranids Win / Draw /Lost 
Daemon Hunters Win / Draw / Lost 
Well...just played in tournament and unfortunately, we didn't come across any double-lash chaos lists, though we did go up against Abaddon.
I teamed up with an ork player, and we actually had a lower model count in total than most of our opponents. He played mechanized and had a nob squad. I used a flyrant, 6 warriors, 25 WoN gaunts, and 3 5W T7 2+ heavy carnifexes.
Throughout all the games, I only lost a total of 2 fexes. The highlight was when my 2 CC-fexes and a squad of 3 killa kanz raped Abaddon and his termies (he only destroyed 1 killa kan).
For those curious..
Odds of failing a psychic test using Ld 10: 8.33% (3/36)
Odds of failing a psychic test using Ld 10 when shadow of the warp is in play: ~19.91% (43/216)
Personally, Id probably put it on a walking tyrant. A flyrant with TSitW will draw too much fire.
Odds of failing a psychic test using Ld 9: 16.67% (6/36)
Odds of failing a psychic test using Ld 9 when shadow of the warp is in play: ~35.65% (77/216)
As of Tyranid 5th Ed. codex I have the Gaunts I wanted. I did, however, loose the sniperfexs I relied upon and they were more important then the gaunts.