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OK, I played a 1500 point game against Chaos and didnt come out on top.
Captain K'nuckles (warboss, big choppa)
5 nobz (all in heavy armour, and all with pks)
A trukk transport
1 Nob (pk)
The above squad*
The above squad*
3 meks with tools
Battle Wagon (kill kannon)*
The above tank*
3 Bomb squigs
His army consisted of (to the best of my memory)
9 Bezerkers (rhino)
10 Havocs (Heavy Bolters )
Now the objective was to hold your objective while getting the opponents also. I had moved my boys up quickly hoping to catch the charge. I ended the game having killed all the bezerkers, all the termies, the lord and the sorcerer. I only kid about 5 marines and 2 havocs though and I ended the game with just my battle wagons. What he had done was he sat back and tore me apart with rockets and heavy bolter fire before my boys could reach the combat of his more vulnerable marines. Now, does this mean i should go for more trukks, giving my boys a better chance to make it faster but giving him fewer targets to shoot at, or more boyz?
A feral Ork is a happy Ork.
A good friend of mine plays CSM so I get my fill of playtesting against him. To be honest, we've almost decided that CSM are made to kill orks. If you take nob bikers he'll blast you with battle cannon shots. If you have trukks he'll lascannon them to death and your smaller mobs will go footslogging and die. Those khorne berzerkers are as scary as chaos (dur hurr!) and can really tear through a unit, and a rhino makes them tough to deal with.
Best advice I can give is to 1st keep those lootas. For not too many points they can deal some damage, but the problem is that your opponent will still get armour saves. Also, a SAG can really mess him up with its AP2 and long range. Kannons can do well too ripping through his armour and denying his saves.
To be honest though, it's a tough army for us to face. I usually try to take a varied army in the hopes he won't be prepared for everything. If you take trukks take a lot of them. One idea people have been toying around with is to take battlewagon and put the lootas in it. From there just leave the battlewagon stationary in the back and maybe even throw in a KFF for that added protection. This can't get points heavy though..
Either way, good luck and I hope this helped!
"Orks have to be followers of Nurgle! They're green, smell bad, and just want to spread the fun!"
I play CSM against my son's Orks quite a bit, and he is a much better player than I am, but with CSM I almost always win or tie. He often clobbers me when I play other races. We have seen that CSM, especially Khorne, can be extremely tough against Orks. He plays Speed Freaks, so it is different from your build.
What works for me: Berserkers, or anything with Mark of Khorne. Land Raiders = too high armor for PKs to handle easily. Havocs with heavy bolters.
What doesn't work well for me (in other words you might not need to focus massed effort on): Any vehicle but Land Raider -- PKs take them down in CC. Terminators -- their power weapons don't help much against such a high save, and Orks put out enough attacks that termies get whittled down to ineffectiveness in short order.
What works for him: He focuses his Boss on my troops. Boss can't stand up to my characters, but he eats troops for lunch. He uses his Lootas to whittle down a threatening squad (these can be very nasty, yes keep them). He ties up my Havocs ASAP with his Bikers -- anything fast, such as StormBoyz, DeffKoptas, or even infiltrating. Get these things in CC ASAP, spend a turn hiding other units if you can't get to them quickly. Orks HAVE to get the charge against CSM. As Speed Freaks he has enough Trukks to get to me, but sometimes I get lucky. A walking Ork is a dead Ork. A Battlewagon with Deff Rolla eats my troops.
What doesn't work for him: Tank Bustas -- they just don't hit enough to mow troops, and aren't high enough strength to reliably take down Land Raiders. PKs are better overall for vehicles. Nobz unit -- some folks love them, and PKs are great against CSM, but he does better against me loading up on Boyz Boyz Boyz. With Speek Freaks he has a higher PK Nobz to Boyz ratio, so he gets his exra Nobz that way, rather than in a single unit where I can focus CC wrath on them.
Maybe another Battlewagon with DeffRolla, more Boyz, and something fast or sneaky (infiltrating) to get those Havocs. If you like shooty squads, big shooty squads popping out of Battlewagons can mow CSM. If you like CC, lots of Trukks can deliver the hurt.
One other thing -- always concentrate your power against CSM. Don't piecemeal attack them matching squad vs squad. With Speed Freaks, if he can hit half my army with most of his before my slow CSMs can get there to support, he can take out enough to make a game of it.
The problem with footslogging Orks is they are just as slow as footslogging CSM, so you can't divide and conquer or choose your battles as well. You have to go super shooty or get faster. My son doesn't do super shooty, but I am sure Big Mek with SAG, killkannons, killer kans, etc, all the standard shooty stuff and supports would work as well. CSM CC is just better than Ork CC in most cases, and you don't have enough shooting or speed to compensate.
Orks are just so darn good as CC they usually don't have to worry about how they are choosing their battles -- just get there. With CSM you have to choose your battles more, and hence speed or whittling CSM down with brute firepower before you face them becomes important. It is a different mindset against CSM...
If you're running mech, a KFF is mandatory. Stopping 50% of all his damaging shots is HUGE.
A 5+ save will mitigate 33% of damage, not 50% ^^. I've said it before and I'll say it again, there's no problem that a suitable amount of Boyz cannot solve! Roughly four boyz for every marine on the field? (And why are you sinking points on bikers?!) And you say that you can't do 'im? Shame on you. Bring the Boyz to the fight and let the Shootaz do the talkin'!
Another monumental cork-up I can see with the naked eye. Zee Nobz. The price of those Nobz can buy you around 40 Boyz! Not enough manpower! Besides, Nobz are smelly. If you're going to take some, go the whole hog, grab a Painboy, a Waaagh! banner, a Battlewagon and a Deffrolla, or leave da' Nobz @ home.
I can't stress this enough: Boyz before toys. Do not take beefy, expensive, easy to kill and naf units to a game if you want to win! Just because they look good on paper, doesn't mean they're going to cut it! :] Just my friendly two cents...
Aaaarrrggghhh! Third observation. No wonder you got shot to shit! So many foot-slogging (Not to mention Slugga! Where's the Shootaz?!?!?!) boyz, no Big Mek with Kustom Force Field, and you expected to survive the first two shooting phases? Pack a Big Mek. Always pack a Big Mek. Who packs a Kustom Force Field. Always pack a Kustom Force Field. ^^, give it a shot and get back to me. Remember that only one model in the unit needs to be within 6" to give the whole unit the 5+. I honestly don't understand how people struggle against Marine Boyz & Spikey Boyz, they simply don't have the manpower! Especially when a Kustom Force Field will preserve your Boyz absolutely spectacularly! I can't stress this enough!!! ^^
"Show 'em the gunline, Boss"
The KFF makes all vehicles within 6" count as obscured, ergo 4+ cover.
Spamming boyz isn't always the way. CSM and Berzerkers will tear them apart all day. Heavy hitter units like Nobs, Bikers, and Meganobs are needed to krump his heavy units in combat, or just blast them with ridiculous amounts of dakka.
Yea I havent played Orks too much but i have played 40k enough to know that you do need some spearheads such as bikes or nobz to try to tie up some of the weaker units. But I do appreciate everyones help and rapid responses. Rep awarded accordingly. This site is amazing cuz anytime you need a hand, so many people are there to offer one. Thanks guys (girls)
A feral Ork is a happy Ork.
Personally, I'd drop the Warboss' Big Choppa. My Boss used to have one, and didn't kill a single thing, the high Strength is good when combined with his good (for Orks) Inititiave, but losing the Power Weapon side of it cripples him. With a Power Klaw he is Strength 10, charging or not, so he can Instant Kill alot of things, and ignores those dammned 3+ Saves!
Otherwise, the usual, KFF Big Mek, doing something with the Nobz (looks like a unit thats too expensive for what it does).
If possible, try using a Looted Wagon with Boomgun? The Battlewagon's Killakannon is good, but the Boomgun is S8, so can get rid of the Lord and Sorceror easier.
you know I have been beginning to realize that the higher strength and inititive really dont make much difference. It should...but it does not. But a looted wagon..thats something i have not yet considered so i will have to give it a shot. Thanks!
A feral Ork is a happy Ork.