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  1. #1
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    Should I buy a seer council

    My Eldar army are currently going through an update, after some TLC to the damaged models and some fluffing for their history I have started to expand the force and I am interested in the Seer Council.

    So I wanted to check a few things firstly

    1: Are the Seer Council a good unit?
    I can imagine how useful they would be against vehicles and troops such as Orks, especially with embolden,

    2: Should I put them on Jetbikes?
    I like the Eldar Jetbike rules and the speed & +1T is appealing. The point cost is about 30-40% more expensive and as there are no models there may be a lot of converting going on. (I would rather have hoverboards than jetbikes as it would allow me to magnetize the models and use as foot and jetbike, would this make sense? how could I achieve this on a budget?)

    3: How often do you (if you do) field them and for what purpose.
    If you do field them, is it because they are good or because their rerollable 4++ will tie down large units for a while.

    4: How should they be played?
    I have seen the threads for Farseer loadout and the ways to counter them so I am aware of their weaknesses, but what are their strengths. I reckon fortune is a must (leading to a sub-question, can fortune be used while locked in combat?)
    Should an Autarch be added for his power weapon to help against those pesky armor saves? this would leave him kind of open to target due to IC rules.

    Many thanks

    Last edited by decoinferno; July 3rd, 2009 at 14:14.

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  3. #2
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    1 They can be an amzing unit.

    2 Up to you, biker councils give speed and better protection but at hight costs.

    3 I pull out my councils once in a while. One is on foot so I normally put it in a waveserpent. Dive into melee as soon as possible and let the resilience of the rerolling saves win combats for you. My bike council is similar as I tend to charge it into melees as fast as I can.

    4 fortune is a must (and yes it can be cast in combat). The strength of the unit is the resilience it has and the number of wounds it causes. This lets it win combats and with the new combat resolution (sp? ) rules they can break units quickly, just keep them away from 2+ save units if you can. If you go for a smaller bike council most people will say that destructors are a must to up the damage they cause. Adding the IC can be a good idea, and remember that the farseer can already be picked out as a IC so you have to deal with that problem already. For fun proxy eldrad and yriel in a council it takes on some of the best melee units in the game can walk away with the win as the council now has two power weapon wielding ICs.
    Last edited by nakaruru; July 3rd, 2009 at 14:20.

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    I do not have my BRB handy but I was sure that a character who has a retinue is counted as an upgraded character instead?

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    Quote Originally Posted by decoinferno View Post
    I do not have my BRB handy but I was sure that a character who has a retinue is counted as an upgraded character instead?
    Only if the unit is actually a retinue, using those words. I believe the Dark Eldar codex uses that phrasing, as well as potentially the Tyranids Brood Lord. The Farseer, however, will be attached to the Warlock squad, never do they become his retinue or bodyguard unit. They may choose to operate independently on the table at any time.

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    you cannot operate individual teh farseer and the warlocks on the table. Beeing a single HQ choice it means they form a single unit. FOC is pretty clear about each entry forming an unit.

    For the OP.

    A seer council is ussualy an amazing unit that can rule the battleground. Their bad point is the high cost that limits you in the other parts of your army opening some vulnerabilities for the opponent.

    Fortune is a must as you really need to reroll that 4+ invul save. For warlocks you need 1 with enhance for extra WS extra I, one with embolden for a almost never failed farseer power and rest are destructors.

    If you need to compare. a 10 man seer council with 7 destructors caused in a single turn 39 wounds to save for the unit they attacked (a raptor unit).

    You cannot add other IC to the seercouncil due to the fact they form a single HQ entry with a IC inside the unit.

    I did not field them regullary but when i do i go for the enemy weak points, especially if i use them on jetbikes. Also on jetbikes you can easily maneuver to assault multiple units. Also i go for the light transports, especially the small ones. Because nobody can put a 10 man tactical squad out of a surrounded rhino in emergency disembarking and stay 1'' from my unit - equal you kill 2 units with 1 strike and you have to see the frozen face of you enemy when you kill this way his precious special character who stayed inside a small transport.

    Use the as fire magnets when needed as the seer council can be so resilient a lot of people can cry cheese
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    council is a fun unit to take, i have the farseer and warlock bodyguard and i love it
    i dont always use it, but i take it from time to time like nakaruru also does

    and ALWAYS always fortune them when u get the chance

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    Quote Originally Posted by niraco View Post
    you cannot operate individual teh farseer and the warlocks on the table. Beeing a single HQ choice it means they form a single unit. FOC is pretty clear about each entry forming an unit.
    I disagree. The only mention of the Farseer and the Warlocks as being a single anything is by being a single FOC choice. Basically, the squad of Warlocks will not count as an additional HQ choice, but instead as part of the same HQ choice that the Farseer counts as. The entry does not mention at all that they form a unit together, thus you can't claim that they do without the Farseer just attaching to the squad as normal.

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    I was going by the actual wording where it states

    Some Codex books allow you to field characters together with a special unit that they cannot leave during the game (which is normally called a retinue, bodyguard or similar
    I assumed that the farseer and warlock retinue falls under this category. it does not mention retinue, bodyguard or similar but it does state normally in the above quote. I figure that i was assuming the Farseer had to be joined to the Warlocks, are they fielded separately?

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    Eldar Codex Page 59 - "each box indicate you may make one choice from that section of the army list"

    Eldar Codex page 60 "For each farseer in the army, you may include a squad of 3-10 warlocks... This unit and the Farseer is a single HQ choice"

    Eldar codex page 59 - "note that unless a model or vehicle forms part of a squad or a squadron, it is a single choice from what is available to your army"

    All these rules must apply in same time as all rules are from codex.

    So the only option not to count each of warlocks as a HQ unit is to have the Farseer inside their unit.

    The RAI is clear here as warlocks are much like sergeants, nobz or chaos champions.

    Your single RAW argument you may use is the same 59 page entry for special rules, but from my point of view, you simply force the RAW. But in the end if your opponent allws you and still have fun playing with you is ok.

    Long live incomplete rules of GW, that you need lawyers to get interpretations from half of rulebooks
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    Quote Originally Posted by niraco View Post
    The RAI is clear here as warlocks are much like sergeants, nobz or chaos champions.
    Sergeants are simply Veterans, which can be taken as individual units. Nobz and Chaos Chosen (basically Aspiring Champions) are also their individual units, so it's not that much of a stretch to have Warlocks able to be taken as a squad all of their own.

    The way I see it, it's just like taking 1-3 Commissars as a single Elites choice. They are taken from the same box, and they all count as a single Elites choice (just as the Warlocks and Farseer all count as a single HQ choice), but they operate independently on the field. They are just combined into one FOC slot to allow the player to take something else along with them.

    Also, the entry for Warlocks states in the squad box "Squad: 3 to 10 Warlocks." If the Farseer were part of their unit, it would make more sense to list the squad as "Squad: 1 Farseer and 3 to 10 Warlocks." Other codices do this for units, such as the Thousand Sons in the Chaos Space Marines codex, I don't see why they wouldn't here too.

    It is also the exact same situation as taking a Command Squad or Honour Guard Squad for Space Marine Captains or Masters. Taking a Captain allows you to field a Command Squad, but they do not operate as a retinue or a bodyguard for the Captain, instead they are fielded as individual units.

    I can't really see the argument that the Warlocks and Farseer make a unit together, just that the Warlocks may be taken as part of the Farseer's HQ slot.
    Last edited by Lost Nemesis; July 3rd, 2009 at 19:25.

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