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Hello again Servants of the Star Gods!
This week will be the continuation of Monster Month for ARH.
Of the Galaxy ending terrors, the only Xenos that compare to Necrons are the Tyranids, with hordes of mindless beasts and lumbering monstrosities, they can give the Immortal warriors of the C'tan a run for their money when it comes to destructive potential.
The Tyranid force (like most that get them apparently) has two Monstrous Creatures, and both are substantially different. We'll start with HQ and then move to HS with this.
Hive Tyrants: big, psychic, with decent toughness and strength, a good number of attacks and a load of versatility, tyrants are decidedly one of the most flexible Monstrous creatures in 40k, and as such they become very dangerous very quickly. Piles of different ranged and close combat weapons, combined with the ability to fly and drop to a 2+ save make these beasts difficult to take on. Stacking synapse and fear-powers in is just icing on the cake.
Carnifex: Really these things are less monstrous creatures and more tanks. Very high S, and mid-high toughness, with a bunch of wounds and decent save make Carnifex a challenge to take down. Combine this with the options of blistering mid S attacks, large blast high S shots, or piles of monstrous CC attacks they become an obvious target early on.
So Tomblords, how do you deal with the bio-monsters of the Tyranid army? What sort of builds do you most often see for Hive Tyrants and Carnifex? What's your favorite way to deal with each? What success stories/ horror stories do you have from dealing with them?
i tend 2 send 8 scarabs at the carnifex then send 2 destroyers 2 blast the tyrant 2 the ground phaseout if that doesn't work like if they've got tyrant guard....
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To the OP: I don't have experience with nidzilla, but I know that there are Tyranid Monstrous Creatures(TMCs) and there are TMCs. Like all models and units in 40k, TMCs are very configurable. That means a smart nid player (and we will assume the opponent is smart) will not just slap a few big models on the table and watch you sweat. Most nid players will configure their big bugs to do a specific thing. Like any unit built like this, there should therefore be clearly-defined strengths and weaknesses. There are many, many common configurations, so common that they have names. Check out the nid sub-forum stickies for a rundown on all the most common variations.
For the most part, there are roughly 3 purposes (I don't know the builds well enough to go into exhaustive detail) to watch out for:
Long-Range: The most common version is the "sniperfex," which is basically a 'fex with venom cannon. Scary looking, both on paper and on the table, but they are somewhat limited in range, and most nid players will keep them to the rear from Turn 1 due to their being slightly vulnerable (as vulnerable as these walking meat-grinders can be!) to return fire. I'd use heavy/normal destroyers, or a squad of immortals with veil-of-darkness-equipped lord.
CC-heavy: I don't know the names, but these things look very, very scary. They can run, and they tend to have heavy cc weapons that might even put a hole in a Monolith. The good news: They can do almost nothing at range, and even nids will be hard-pressed to hit your lines with one of these things on the first turn, so you have SOME time. If it were me, I'd counter these things with monstrous creatures of my own, such as Tomb Spyders and C'Tan. The cc 'fex will likely strike last, which means the Deceiver has a good fighting chance of taking it down. Barring this, shoot them. A lot. Massed destroyer/immortal fire is the key. If your opponent has these, odds are you'll want to hit them first. Long-range stuff (see above) will be forced into a dueling firefight with you, and Necrons have a better chance of hanging tough there than in cc with a two-story crustacean. Of special note is the flying hive tyrant. If your opponent has one of these, it MUST die first. This is simply not negotiable. Kill it fast, at all costs.
Medium-range gunners: The "gunfex" or "dakkafex" are prime examples, as are the "dakka tyrants." These guys are actually more dangerous than the "sniperfexes" mentioned above. Lots of high-strength templates, which will eat up your scarabs fast. Again, massed fire is the way to go. Tomb Spyders will help too, but don't count on the "scarab shield" making it into cc. This and the C'Tan are the only things I'd consider charging a 'fex or tyrant with, and getting these guys, like any shooty unit, into cc is a good thing, as they won't be dropping plates on your warriors.
It's also worth remembering that monstrous creatures of any kind CANNOT take objectives, which means in 2/3 of all games, the nidzilla player is at a disadvantage. It is often, believe it or not, better to ignore them, if the situation permits, and take out his gaunts and stealers. That means all he'll get is a draw. Maybe. Also, as long as those scoring units are alive, the nidzilla player will have to keep one eye on them while trying to pound you into scrap with the big bugs. In any case, the more big bugs he brings, the fewer little bugs can take the hill/building/etc.
I also play nidzilla, and I usually run 4-7 TMC's. They can have up to 6 carnifexes and 2 hive tyrants. While it is a good idea to concentrate on the troops, it is not always effective. A lot of nidzilla armies take genestealers and outflank them so there are no initial troops for you to shoot at, or they take gaunts which just respawn when you kill them. Either ways, you can't avoid the TMC's, especially when they're running towards you.
A C'tan is a good choice. He'll easily kill the TMC's if he's not ganged up on. Tomb Spyders are so-so. Against a cc-fex, they'll get massacred unless you gang up on the fex. They'll attack at the same time (I2), but the spyders hit on 5+ whereas the carnifex hits on 3+ (WS4 vs WS1) due to adrenal glands and toxic miasma. Most frightening is that a cc-fex could potentially attack 12x on the charge! Also, a souped up fex has T7, 5W, 2+ saves. My fex easily survived rapid fire from about 30+ necrons before!
Consider heavy destroyers. 6 heavy destroyers will probably take out 1 fex per turn, and they can always turboboost away if a fex gets close. Just watch out for the dakkafexes (mid-range shooting fexes). They have 8 S6 shots with re-rolls on the hit and wounds.
If you want to tie up the fexes in combat, get some wraiths. You won't kill it, but you'll keep it stuck in combat for a while (until his other fexes gang up on you).
Finally, as Canew says, your #1 target is his Dakka Tyrant. TAKE HIM OUT AT ALL COSTS! He is the most dangerous. Many times my flying tyrant has won the game for me by taking out important enemy units. Not much survives his shooting.
Spyders are WS2 actually, so it's 4+ for them to hit the melee fexes (granted they don't have toxic miasma).
Honestly I've never managed to come up against carnifexes with my Necrons yet, or Tyrants for that matter, so again I don't have much to input here >>.
Wraiths are decent for tie up, nice invuln save to keep them in the running. Come out near even on points, but I dunno if they'd be that reliable, I'd much rather use Spyders against dakkafexes/sniperfexes.
Regardless of what army I am using I usually go for the synapse first (particularly the flying varieties as has been mentioned). Carnifexes still have to pass a Ld test to do anything constructive (besides lurk anyway) when out of synapse. This stacks well with pariahs oddly enough making them less likely to stick around. (if synapse is gone then the fex must go for nearest nid table edge) The same applies to gaunts out of synapse so don't throw away your nightmare shrouds just yet. These sorts of tactics can be used to herd lesser nids towards the synapse creatures, making template scattering less of an issue. Come to think of it, if you nightmare shroud a unit below half strength can they regroup?
Important note, after looking over the nid codex, lurking nids DO NOT claim objectives! If he is out of synapse at the end of the game make sure he takes those Ld 5 tests, it may just turn the tide in your favor.
Last edited by NovaJohn; July 7th, 2009 at 02:19.
Oh, oops I missed that! Oh well, just one more reason not to use pariahs. The rest still stands though.
My regular opponents fields his Nidzilla army quite a lot. He takes 3 Dakkafexes, 2 Sniperfexes, 3 Zoanthropes and 2 Dakkatyrants (1 flying). The rest he spends on Gaunts with the Without Number special rule that allows them to respawn. The only effective method I've found is to isolate and concentrate fire on the MC's one after another. Taking pot shots at them now and again accomplishes nothing, it needs to be all out on one at a time or nothing.
Wraiths can have decent stopping power, but any CC fex will force too many saves on them. They're still only T4. Any Dakkafex with devourers shooting at them will take them out very very easily. 12 shots rerolling to hit AND wound? Dead Wraiths.
I've recently taken to using a cheap tactic with the Monolith. Because most of the MC's are decked out for shooting, I use the Monolith as a moving barrier to block LOS between the nearest MC and my Necrons. It drops pie plates on clusters of MC's and acts as a mobile shield, basically. You can use it as a dozer blade to tank shock MC's out of range and keep things away while you get another turn of shooting off.
Destroyers are very useful as they have an easier time wounding tough MC's, but the one invaluable unit I have found is a C'Tan. It will simply eat up any MC you can throw at it. Using the Deceiver might be preferable as you can deny the opponent a chance to attack it in their assault phase, allowing you to jump around from Assault to Assault laying down attacks and never really taking damage in the shooting phase.
However, because the C'Tan is our main weapon against such an army, expect the Nidzilla player to focus heavily on it. As tough as they are, against enough Dakka it will go down. However, these are turns spent not shooting at your Crons and forcing phaseout, so it's not all bad.