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I'd love to see someone explain the interaction between WAAAGH, Fleet and Run in 5th edition, I havent been able to find a definitive explanation.. Is there a FAQ for the ork codex somewhere?
Specifically: The waagh rule says delcare the waagh during the shooting phase (I guess, whenever you want to declare it?) so, can I take all my shots, delcare the waagh, run the units that are going to run and then assault with them? Sure, that seems reasonable.
Then, why can't I shoot, run, then declare the waaghh? There's no such thing as a fleet move any more, right, fleet just says they can assault if they ran. So why cant I run all my orks, and then see if I want to use the waagh to assault with them. That seems to defy the point of the rule, because you'll have to remember who rolled 1's and retroactively wound them, and you then get to declare the waaaghh after seeing all the run dice. I think this might violate the 'spirit' of the rules, but i dont see why it violates the letter.
Someone explain why i'm wrong.
I always declare that I'm WAAAGHING!!! before rolling any run movements. The rules are a little murky because of the new running rules, so I opt to utilize the rule in the spirit of the rules. That's ultimately how the game should be played (opinion disclaimer), and using loopholes to give yourself what amounts to a very small advantage seems rather, well, 'dickish', is the word I'd use.
TL;DR: Declare WAAGH!! then run if you want to use the rule as it was meant to be used.
- The Waaagh Rule says that all friendly Ork infantry units gain "fleet of foot" special rule
- The "fleet of foot" says that units that have "run" can assault that turn
- The "run" rule says you can move 1d6 inches instead of shooting
So, if you declare a Waaagh, all units that have already shot can't move anymore. Its shooting or moving, not both.
Ork Latin Lover since 1980
I agree and disagree at the same time, I agree that searching for exploits and using them when they defy the spirit of the rules == dickishwell, 'dickish', is the word I'd use.
However, if the rules do not explicitly disallow a strategy, there's a grey area.That's not my pointSo, if you declare a Waaagh, all units that have already shot can't move anymore. Its shooting or moving, not both.
My point is this: There's nothing prohibiting an ork player from declaring the waaagh *AFTER ALL RUNS HAVE BEEN MADE* at the end of the shooting phase, looking at the position of the ork units directly before the assault phase and deciding *then* whether or not to waaagh. This was illegal in 4th, but doesnt seem to be now.
The *spirit* of the rule *seems to suggest* that you should declare the waaagh prior to rolling the runs, because it stipulates that rolling a 1 for the run = a wound to the unit....
I'm not saying this is how I want to play my waaaghh, but clarification on this rule would be useful in advance of the ard boys tourney.
I see I misunderstood you slightly. My mistake.
I'd say you have to declare the Waaagh before rolling to run. Otherwise the movement wouldn't have been done under the Waaagh special condition and the unit would be unable to assault, IMHO
Ork Latin Lover since 1980
I agree that's the way the rule makes the most sense, but as I read it, that isn't what the rule says.
The difference here is that there is a difference between a run move and a "fleet" move. A run move stipulates that you can't assault after running. A fleet rule is otherwise. Now when you declare a unit is "running" then it can't assault afterwards. If you declare a unit is "fleeting" then it may. therefore, you must declare your waggh to gain a fleet role. You can't turn a run roll into a fleet move with the WAAAGGH.
Your essentially choosing between a fleet move or a run move.
Last edited by AlbinoAlien; July 9th, 2009 at 15:33.
That distinction existed in 4th,
but no such distinction is made in the 5th edition rules.(That I've been able to find) fleet just says a unit with this rule may assault in the same turn in which it has run
I don't think fleet *should* be retroactive, I just dont know why it *isnt*
I can't see how you don't see a distinction. Though Fleet has taken on a different shape, the principle that the ability exists seperate from run still takes precedence. Regardless of the RUN rule being used with the description of the fleet role, FLeet and run are still two seperate abilities with a common thread that links them for referencing purposes.
I think you are trying to dig at a loophole that is ruled out by logic, common sense and sportsmanship.
It is clear that you know to exploit this rule's particular wording is wrong; just because it is not set in stone in the BGB does not mean you should keep questioning it.