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So, here's a play by play analysis of my own though process when I compare a Deffkopta vs a warbuggies.
Force org slot:
Deff - Fast
WarB - Fast
Points cost for expected uses:
Deff w/ twin linked rokits - 45 pts
WarB w/ twin linked rokits - 35 pts
Leadership: (Thanks to Ramonacus)
Deff - Easily Broken
WarB - has none - always passes.
Effectiveness of shooting:
Deff - TL rokits
WarB - TL rokits
Deff - Higher T than most orks, standard gun needs a 5 to wound, str 8 weapon will kill outright.
WarB - Standard gun needs a 6 to glance, str 7+ guns have a high chance to pen,High chance of being stunned/shaken., Can benifit more from being obscured by terrain.treat crew stunned as crew shaken, but inmobized as destroyed (last two thanks to Ramonacus)
Personally, I'd take the buggies here, but I can see the arguments for Deffkoptas.
Effectiveness in CC:
Deff - ( Compared to WarB ) easy to kill in CC, few attacks vs points cost, Hit and Run, Buzzsaw too expensive for what you get.
WarB - Unable to attack in CC, effectively can not be tied in up CC, most opponents will need a 6 to glance vs warb, Power weapons are unable to effect it
Deff - good movement due to jetbike rules, can easily avoid terrain, Scout, Outflank
WarB - Good movment due to fast vehicle rules, must avoid terrain.
Synergy: (How well it is able to mesh with other abilities of Orks)
Deff - Can benifit from waaaugh if you don't plan on shooting, Unable to benifit from going all infantry due to double toughness causing instant death (AT weapons will be focused on the kopta's if you made a 0 armor list), Can force an enemy into CC on turn 2, preventing them from shooting
WarB - Can add to number of armor targets when list is made to do so. (IE: 9 buggies, 9 killa kans, 6 trukks = 24 pieces of armor), works well with KFF, can be used to give orks behind 4+ cover saves easily
This is just my personal opinions, and I'm not looking to start a flame war, but I am just trying to figure out why people on this board seem to love deffkoptas so much. Personally, they seem very overpriced for what you get. If they could take a nob with powerklaw, it'd be a different story, but they can't. I'd rather take a squad of bikes then the deffkoptas, they'd be more versitle and better at tank hunting with that claw.
Getting off topic here, bikes aren't on the table.
You see 3 deffkoptas and 3 warbugges in front of you. You can only take one squad, which do you pick and what are the reasons behind it?
Just a few comments to add:
Personally I prefer deffkoptaz because they are more dangerous even tho they are more fragile. Scout abilty is great and you can have up to five.
- Doesn't a deffkopta with rokkits cost 45 points?
- Warbuggies skwadrons treat crew stunned as crew shaken, but inmobized as destroyed
- Psichology: buggiez are inmune to everything, but deffkoptaz can be sent running very easily
This is of course just personal opinion
Ork Latin Lover since 1980
Despite their apparent similarities, I've found that deffkoptas and warbuggies are two very different units.
Warbuggies are a vehicle squadron with twin linked big shoota/rokkit shots and a skorcha option. They can't assault, but can't be panicked either. They're very lightly armored, but they're fast vehicles.
Deffkoptas are a jetbike unit with twin linked big shoota/rokkit shots and several other options you should never, ever take. They can assault, and can take the equivalent of powerklaws, but they don't have many attacks and only strike with strength 7. They can be panicked, and can't take a bosspole, but they can outflank and supercharge. Point for point, they're more expensive than warbuggies.
Which is better? It really depends on what type of army you're playing, but it usually comes down to whether you need an outflanking unit or not.
If you use deffkoptas as if they were bikes, then warbikes and stormboyz are definitely superior, since they both can take a nob and powerklaw, so the only reason to take deffkoptas is to outflank with them. Regardless, this is a very good reason to take them, especially in horde lists where getting to distant enemy vehicles is a problem. However, the fact that they panic easily means you should probably not use less than 5 koptas.
In speed freaks lists, warbuggies are great for distracting, providing cover for other units behind them, and firing rokkits/skorchas at the enemy. They're a very cost effective unit, and the only reason not to take them is because you want a unit that can assault the enemy. In this case, however, the best choice are bikes or stormboyz, not koptas.
So, of the three, the most balanced choice is the warbuggy, preferrably with rokkits. If you need a bit more 'fast' close combat punch in the list, then warbikes or stormboyz are the way to go. If you're worried about distant enemy vehicles (and with the new IG codex, you should be), then deffkoptas are the way to go. It all depends on what you need.
Last edited by mynameisgrax; July 25th, 2009 at 13:53.
You bring up some very valid points. I'm still getting used to the kodex, and 5th ed (I played 4th ed for a year, quit for a year, and I'm back now) I can't find where it gives them outflank. Does scout give outflank also now? I don't have my big book at the moment to check...
Both the 'scout' and 'infiltrate' rule now allow the unit that has them to outflank. Those are the only units that can outflank, as far as I'm aware.
If you have infiltrate, you could instead choose to be closer to the enemy at the start of the game, and if you have scout you could instead get a free move before the first turn, but in either case, I think outflanking is better. You can't shoot what isn't on the board yet. ^_^
I find Deffkoptas are usefull purely as a distraction unit.
As they can usually reach my opponnents deployment zone in the first turn (or get close) and the models are quite large, opponents tend to devote resources to killing or nullifying them.
Especially with the amount of shots they can pour out in a round of shooting, they seem more dangerous than they actually are.
I like using them to hunt or harrass artillery units behind enemy lines, boosting to their table edge to nullify the cover save from their forward units.
And if they survive until my units start assaulting their lines, then they can be used to trap enemy squads being assaulted.
Though I do admit I havent really play tested warbuggies.
#25 - Relation to the original topic decreases with every single post.