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    Re Agoniser rules

    Hi good people,

    I have the second edition DE codex. I have read the rules re the agoniser many times but am still stuck on how it works exactly so have tended to use the Punisher.
    Lets run an example against another fearsome adversary, like say an Ork Warboss.

    Agonser equipped Archon charges in, has the higher initiative and re-roll misses option for CD.

    I roll two 1s, two 3s and a 4. By my way of reading the rules, I have hurt the warboss once so far. In the entry it says, do not roll to wound. Hits on blah blah or higher case 1 wound regardless of blah blah of opponent.

    I then re-roll my two misses, the 1s, as the 3s technically were hits but could not cause damage. My re-rolled 1s give me a 4 and a 6. Warboss has taken 3 hits from my Archon.

    OR

    do you play it.... roll to hit. Then roll all the hit dice that did hit and the dice that are blah blah or higher, are the resultant wounds???

    Looking forward to a quick reply!


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    You roll to hit as normal, then roll a d6 for each hit needing a 4+ to wound (page 14 DE Codex)

  4. #3
    Dark Eldar Gerbil Splata's Avatar
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    159 (x5)

    This has been a mistake made by many a DE player. But as you probably realised it actually makes the agoniser WAY too good.

    You play it: roll to hit as usual and then roll for wound with a 4+. As an aside this doesn't count as a poisoned weapon as the the rulebook so you still play it as the codex has badly worded
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    Thanks guys. Honestly, I have played it the latter way but it got me thinking... for the points, isn't it then an exceedingly average weapon when played this way? It seems to me that we are still rolling to wound and detracting from its effectiveness when played this way.
    Compare similar point value weapons like the Power Claw or the Power Fist. These are weapons that can not only instant kill your DE HQ but can also rip through tank armour, Well worth it if you have to make up for crappy BS in the case of orks or average h2h ability for SMs. They do come at a penalty to initiative.
    The agoniser is our great equaliser, it makes up for average strength and toughness but at the penalty of you needing a more accurate hit to do damage.
    In the case of an agoniser, I now feel the quality of the hit determines success. I think of it like a tazer. My mate is a cop and he volunteered in training to be zapped by one these. The second it hit him in the back and the charge went off he fell face forward and couldn't even put his arms out to break his fall. He said it was like being hit with a sledgehammer on his whole body!
    The rule says roll to hit as normal. In my warboss example, the 1s and 2s are flat out misses but the 3s would be like tazering someones rubber shoe soles or something, yeah? If a sybarite was against something with fantastic WS, like say an Avatar, then I would expect that only the requisite 5 or 6 would do damage. The 4 has struck a non conductive point. If the sybarite were against lower WS adversaries, it still needs a 4 to hit the blasted little grot diving in to the hole or to hit the gap in the armour of the hapless fire warrior.
    Any more thoughts? I am just trying to vindicate our race that already has so many weaknesses. Surely we deserve a very good weapon like this and the high cost it entails.

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    Agonisers aren't really meant to slaughter hordes of enemy troops in my opinion, if you want to do that get a punisher and tormentor helm. Agonisers are great for killing monstrous creatures though, you negate their high toughness and armor saves and generally have higher initiative than them.

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    Dark Eldar Zealot Wicky's Avatar
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    The Agoniser is a ‘leveller’ in the game, in that no matter how tough your opponent is he is getting a wound on a dice roll of 4+ or a 50% chance of wounding barring invulnerable saves.

    What you do in is fact by pass the ‘To Wound Chart,’ from page 38 BRB so that your low strength model can wound a very tough enemy half of the time.

    The sticking point here is that its only ever half on the time, your wounding percentage will never be raised above that and this may not be enough when facing off against horde armies (as mentioned above.)

    And I think that its point costing is fine as it is.

    Cheers.
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  8. #7
    Slave to the flesh The_Outsider's Avatar
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    The agoniser (as wicky says) levels out the S vs T problem quite nicely and enables DE to curbstomp forces that put a lot of focus in high T models (i'm looking at you, nidzilla) without sacrificing initiative.

    Thanks to the magic of the agoniser I once had a basic wych succubus eat 3 carni's in a game once.

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    Aaaarghh!!

    No takers on my reading? :-(

    I haven't given up yet!! I still totally understand what you guys mean and I have played it that way for some time but it is still contentious...says me arguing against the world...
    Too many times I have seen 4 hits convert to ONE or NOTHING in damage. For 20 points that is rubbish output. And rotten luck. And I want to throw a panzy when it happens. And likely my opponents think man, that guy is a dick ... and his waargear choices are dubious at best.
    Compare the entry for poison blades and it is obvious that a "to wound" roll is necessary. But the agoniser reads closer to a terrorfex/horrorfex rule- if target is hit, it is affected regardless of strength/toughness.
    I contend that "don't roll to wound" means that the d6 roll to get 4+ after establishing your hits is unnecessary. By doing that you are rolling to wound anything on a 4+.
    The agoniser is a much more brutal device than this, I feel.

    An agoniser toting character should rightly be feared and shot at before it can get too close.

  10. #9
    Dark Eldar Gerbil Splata's Avatar
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    159 (x5)

    Wait, your agoniser wielders aren't feared and shot before they get close?

    Ok, direct from the rules
    "roll to hit as normal, but don't roll to wound. Instead hits cause 1 wound on a D6 roll of 4+"
    This means to me that you don't roll to wound. Instead you take one D6 per hit and roll that. on a 4+ regardless of Strength/Toughness"

    As others have said before me you have an agoniser as an equaliser for high T opponents. If you want Str and a good to wound value take a punisher on a bike with drugs. Re-roll hits. Str 6 (wound most things on a 2+) with no save. Then just for the fun of it give yourself 6 attacks. That will take your opponents down a notch or two! 4 dead marines marines before they can even lift a finger!

    That said my archon is still on a raider with only str5. And oh boy is that enough!
    Caps-Lock, its like cruise-control for AWESOMENESS!
    Dear Game Developer,
    Rock is cheese, Paper is just fine
    Signed Scissors.

    WWP and other Dark Eldar how to
    http://forums.relicnews.com/showthread.php?t=149386

  11. #10
    Slave to the flesh The_Outsider's Avatar
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    251 (x8)

    Quote Originally Posted by Splata View Post

    As others have said before me you have an agoniser as an equaliser for high T opponents. If you want Str and a good to wound value take a punisher on a bike with drugs. Re-roll hits. Str 6 (wound most things on a 2+) with no save. Then just for the fun of it give yourself 6 attacks. That will take your opponents down a notch or two! 4 dead marines marines before they can even lift a finger!

    That said my archon is still on a raider with only str5. And oh boy is that enough!

    This is why incubi exist - the archon on his own will eat a carnifex and against marines should the archon only score 2-3 wounds (which he should) 5 (or more) incubi eat the unit.

    If people think wounding on a 4+ is crap, go talk to typhus.

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