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Continuing this debate here. About using a HH with SMS and the use of Fish.
Last edited by Tz'arken; August 6th, 2009 at 16:42.
SMS on hammerheads are brilliant. They aren't necessary, but they are great if you can afford the additional 15 points (you also want a target lock, see) it requires to equip them onto your tank. They can possibly deny cover to units hit. They don't require line of sight. They give you additional opportunities to shoot that burst cannons wouldn't, thanks to the additional 6" range.
Hammerheads start in the backfield, but they should advance near to the midfield and then back up again when the opponent advances, aiming to stay at that ideal 24" range. That keeps you out of range of melta weaponry (even after the opponent advances), out of range of fast assaulters, and yet gives you a nice boost in firepower. What's not to like? Again, not strictly necessary, but SMS + TL is a great upgrade if you can spare the points on virtually any Tau vehicle.Technically, it is. Make it a warfish, and it's a reasonable light tank. No wave serpent, but then again, what is? From a rules standpoint, Eldar have always had the superior vehicles. Disruption pods are all that keeps us competitive.Originally Posted by rikimaru
Can't be helped that GW wants to sell vehicles and they've points-costed vehicles in the recent codexes to reflect that. That and the favorable 5th edition rules regarding vehicles, and is it any wonder mech armies are king these days?
Regarding FW: I learned the hard way that FWs are pretty crap Troops. They have their very limited uses -- and I love the models and the army fluff -- but they really are pretty terrible. If they could take special weapons, then I might think otherwise. But seriously, how can you compare FWs to Kroot? Kroot are one of the best Troops in the entire game. I guess they had to balance that out with FWs and force us to take at least one such loser unit.
I'm the real sucker. I love the little guys despite their awfulness and nearly always take 2-3 units when I'd be better off taking that many Kroot units instead. The fluff bunny in me just hates Tau armies that field more Kroot units than FW units, though. Shame on me.
ninjabackhand: point and click, again, really? even after i give you an military term "shock tactic" you still call it point and click.
RIP Warhammer 40,000: 21 Sep 1998 - 24 May 2014
Hammerheads are taken for one thing and one thing alone 'RAILGUN' not for a piddly SMS or Burst cannon, why anyone would want to risk losing the railgun for the possibility of killing 1 Marine or two non MEQ infantry with the fearsome 20pt SMS. Yeah makes perfect sense to me.
Threat is what I am getting at here. Hammerheads are numero uno vehicle target and Skyrays come way down the priority. Also I never said they were not going to take damage, what I said was you get more chances to use the SMS because you have to be closer to use the ML's. To be honest I never take SMS on the Skyray either because I always aim to be just within ML distance and that is further than 24" away.
The kill points thing is not even worth consideration, Drones are treated as passengers so short of a 6 on the damage dice (and then they take a SRT4 hit and get armour saves) the Drones simply disembark and take a pinning test, the Drones have to be killed and if the opponent wants to waste time on a small Drone squad then good it means my other more valuable stuff is not getting shot at.
I cannot think of the last time I lost kill points because the Gun Drones died, they simply are not priority targets (even with the kill point they give up).
Like number6 said we have Kroot which are awesome but I just do not agree that Fire warriors are awful, they could be better but 10pts is hardly extortionate for what you get.
There seems to be a lot of disdain coming from you that is to be quite honest based on totally unfounded reasoning and comparisons with other units that are not comparable. Maybe you should play Eldar and you won't have to deal with all the inferior crap Tau bring to the table eh!!
Last edited by Rikimaru; August 6th, 2009 at 22:11.
fire warriors are good at shooting there gun is long range and good str mixed with marker lights its zomg
There are more weapons than the Lascannon that have lesser ranges that can destroy a Hammerhead. Another point is that it is not just shooting attacks that are the only problem, assaults are dangerous for Hammerheads and the more distance between the HH and the opponent the better.
I actually take your opinion on this with a bit of trepidation because in another thread you were talking about stuff like target priority which has not been a part of the game for months, the fact is that there is usually no need to move a Hammerhead forward, the only reasons would be to gain clear LOS, to avoid a Deep striking unit or to contest an objective, other than those zilch reason.
Unless you can absolutely guarantee you can keep a unit or two of Fire Warriors safe without a Devilfish then you have no choice but to take the Devilfish (there is no other transport choice).
No matter what you say the Devilfish does a damned good job at what it was designed to do 'transporting and keeping FW units safe'. It adds 5 FW's worth of firepower to a unit of FW's, keeps them safe and makes them a damned sight more manoeuvrable.
Try this, put a unit of FW's on an objective on foot and then put a unit near an objective in a Devilfish. Shoot at both units and see which holds the objective longer, try assaulting the units and see which holds the objective longer. Do this then come back to me and say how worthless the DF is.
Another thing is the DF can be used to keep fragile Kroot units safe as well.
FW and Fish win you games, if you do not have FW's your list is ilegal for a start, keeping FW's alive is paramount and the best way to do this is with a Devilfish. 10pts for a FW is not overpriced, just how much do you think a 4+SV, Pulse rifle equipped FW should be then?. I take 9FW units and serve me well, I also take Kroot and the combination is very strong.
The reason FW's cost 10 pts is they have a much better save and a much better weapon than the Kroot.
Last edited by Rikimaru; August 7th, 2009 at 15:06.
The Fire warrior is flawed but flawed by design, they are not meant to be close combat efficient and it is ingrained deep in their fluff that they are inferior in this respect to most other units.
They are not heavy weapons specialists nor are they marksmen, they are not superhuman genetically enhanced uber warriors nor are they super fast lithe elves.
What they are is basically alien Imperial guard with very good guns. They have a decent BS and their weapon wounds tgh3 on 2+, tgh4 on 3+ and tgh5 on 4+, so with just one markerlight token they will out shoot most infantry in the game and out range them. This is why they are good at shooting.
No other infantry unit in the game can increase its BS over and above its standard.
Devilfish are the only transports we have. They have good good armour for a transport and with a Multi they add five Fire warriors worth of firepower to help the FW unit. Put the two units together and you have something that does its job and does it well. That is all I have to say on the subject really, it is obvious you have a somewhat irrational hatred of FW's and Devilfish and there is no point stating anything further than what i ahve above.