Welcome to Librarium Online!
I'm new to nids but a vet to the game. I have only played against em once and it was a 1k point game against my mech tau back with the orriginal tau dex.
So i have picked up the dex and two battleforces, so ill be able to field my own 1k list.
My question concerns guns. I want a different army than my current ones, (SM, IG, Tau), which all rely heavily on shooting. Which leads me to nids since my bro plays orks.
Anyway I want to play a cc army but i still realize that shooting is sometimes necessary especially when you can do it on the move like the nids, Its also a waste to have units sitting on an objective doing nothing.
Which brings me to the question what guns do you guys give your warriors, fexes and tyrants?
I was thinking barbed strangler on the fexes, with deathspitters on the warriors. Your thoughts. O and i was planning on putting sything talons on all the larger nids cause i like the way they look and +1 attack is good.
A nice, not often seen specialist fex I run is the two sets of twin linked devourers. Can take a licking and eats infantry alive. 8 strength 6 attacks that reroll to hit and wound, even space marines cannot weather such a storm. Obviously enhanced senses should be used here.
Gunfexes tend to be two venom cannons, two barbed stranglers, or one of each, depending on personal preferences. Like above, enhanced senses is a must and for a guy this big I'd suggest a survivability upgrade. Shooty fexes never need toxin sacs however, their guns either modify to strength ten or have a max of eight.
Warriors I tend to run deathspitters with a venom cannon snuck in sometimes, or a devourer with my "fighty" warriors to give them a bit of punch in the shooting phase.
As Zarachius said, foot tyrants love venom cannons, and I would rather have a winged tyrant with more scythes than one with guns.
Zoanthropes can cripple tanks or massed infantry, don't discount them as often they can be more useful than a specialized fex.
And of course, spinegaunts and termagaunts give you a massive amount of relatively ineffective firepower, but throw enough mud at a wall and some will stick. Not to mention these suckers are super cheap, even with "Without Number".
So while 'Nids may be a clos combat focused army, a fex or zoanthrope can swing you over to a more "shooty" side, and the basic troops, like orks, fire a ton of shots every turn, even if none wound.
I actually have been wondering as to which is more effective on a flying hive tyrant, scything talons and devourers or just 2x scything talons. How does that work for you Shaggoth? And I assume the OP still wants more information on how to equip a hive tyrant so they may be interested too.
Shaggoth, the dual twin linked devourers is known as a "dakkafex" or "devilfex" and is actually obscenely popular (at least around LO). Decidedly effective, though only really good against infantry and lighter transports.
As noted heavy support throws out Sniperfexes (Venom cannon + barbed strangler) with enhanced senses and some extra goodies to make it tougher.
Otherwise, I run a CC-oriented list myself, and use a barbed strangler on my Carnifex, then scything talons with it, and load up on tons of defensive upgrades to make sure it gets to the other side (and it always has). Doesn't always get many hits, but when it does, they tend to hurt, and once I get close I just charge the thing at tanks.
Warriors I always run deathspitters, and rending claws. Mass attacks aren't a problem for tyranids, it's the punching through armor that they can have a hard time with (at least outside of melee.) So the rending claws form a second line after my gaunts to rend anything that they couldn't kill with massed attacks.
For Hive Tyrants, I've never fielded one yet, however I'd go for a venom cannon, it has some great potential for shooting down light vehicles on a Tyrant (and maybe on warriors).
Sadly I have not yet converted a winged tyrant, though my friends let me proxy him. My main tyrant is a fairly standard scything talons/venom cannon and loads of upgrades. Bonesword/whip is a great combo but my tyrant is the older Hive Tyrant model before those upgrades existed.
Well, I have my fair share of experience with large bugs so here are a few tips:
Devourers on MCs are very very good. They are cheap, can shoot on the move, have a lot of shots, have high str AND living ammo, and are twin-linked to account for our poor BS.
Tyranids have no AP to speak of, so to punch through armour we have to use a high volume of wounds, which is exactly what the devourers provide. Hence why they are so incredibly popular in these forums... because they're actually very good. A dakkafex is one of the most useful elite configurations, since it's very reliable, quite tough and eats both infantry and light vehicles (rhinos/trukks) like there's no tomorrow.
The dakkatyrant is somewhat worse against vehicles, but it owns infantry. Hard. Even terminators. 12 shots re-rolling to hit and wound is nothing to sneeze at, and you can count at at least 8 wounds per volley (or more, depending on the target and whether you put TS or not).
The only downside of devourers is the range. They are pretty short-ranged, putting you well into range of a lot of nasty things that will wound your MC's (plasmas, for example) and allowing some targets to run out of the range of your guns sometimes.
So for a more defensive build, you have the boomfex, which carries scything talons and a barbed strangler. This build is pretty effective vs bunched troops, particularly vs light armoured hordes (orks, some nids) and less effective vs harder (more expensive and sparse) targets (marines, vehicles). It can harm high-armour vehicles, but it has to hit with the center of the template, which depends greatly on your luck, and it is also better in melee (the extra attack makes it a 33% more effective in melee vs a dakkafex and harder to tie up).
I'd say it's a smidgeon less killy than the dakkafex, but it can sit in cover or an objective and shoot to distant targets, it can easily contribute from turn 1 with its long range, and can cause pinning tests, which is of great relevance if you're running a "psychich choir" list (three thropes and two tyrants with psychich scream to create a -5 Ld bubble. Great vs non fearless army, which sadly, are only about half of them).
Note that both the dakkafex and boomfex can fill an elite spot in games over 1.5k points.
Then, to hunt/shake armoured tanks you have two real choices; a melee flyrant (wings, 2x Scytal, warp field) and the sniperfex (barbed strangler, venom cannon, Enhanced Senses). Other medium nids with rending can harm tanks in cc, but the rolling tins are generally hard to catch unless you're outflanking or something.
You can make a sniper tyrant, but the lower S really hurts vs tanks and you'd be wasting the relatively large number of attacks of the tyrant, so if you want to snipe, leave that to carnifices.
I'd generally advice against any pure CC MC (except the flyrant) since they may take 3-4 turns to get to do anything in the game. They are half-decent once they arrive (my only gripe is the abysmal I of the carnifex), but generally they take too long to get there to make up for their cost. At any rate, if you do run CC MCs, please, do so in numbers, so that you can "corner" your target with them and get at least one to hit.
And, a general advice with MCS: keep them cheap. As much as possible. The extra wound is possibly the best defensive upgrade, and is the first one you should consider, probably. The others are a matter of taste. Consider that the difference of points from a boomfex to a sniperfex is a couple of genestealers, or outflanking for a genestealer brood, or a full small brood of gaunts you could be buying, so if your main target is gonna be infantry, don't bother with the venom cannon. You can easily buy three boomfexes or dakkafexes for the cost of two fully upgraded sniperfexes, and believe me, the extra shots and wounds are very much worth it, so try not to overload them with upgrades unless you are sure there are no more units you could buy with those points.
"Quantity is a quality on its own" should be the motto here, and also "specialize, specialize, specialize!" do not go with mixed approaches like the devourer/scythal flyrant. Either full CC and go for your targets (vehicles, characters if kitted out correctly) or full shooty and simply obliterate anything without armour short of a C'tan. The same goes for any model in the army, really.
Finally, about warriors, I find that they are too fragile and slow to make it to CC, so I usually run them with TS, Deathspitters and Scything talons. (I know rending kills things, but I want them shooting, so I try to keep them out of melee. The saved points are spent elsewhere). Some people ditch the TS and run them with twin-linked Deathspitters. The extra hits may compensate the lost wounds, but they'd be worse against light vehicles, hence why I go with the first option. Field them in a fairly large brood if at all possible, since they die quickly.
Last edited by kalender; August 10th, 2009 at 10:07.
Well it seems i have right from the start nailed it on popular biomorphs for the warriors.
For the fex. I do not want a shooty fex, its a cc monster and something that my opponents will fear and most likely spend way to much time trying to kill it. As such i was plannin on putting sything tallons on it, especially since they look cool. In addition to the tallons ill be using a weapon i can fire from range because they are slow like you say id perfer one with long range (im assumming MCs cant run gotta refresh my memory played guard in last campaign).
You gotta be really careful with bringing too many blast templates. after one volley your opponent gets smart and starts 2 inch spacing like a mother trucker. making your blast weapons pretty terrible, cause you are only hitting 1 unit unless you get a good scatter.
my regular opponents always 2 inch space when i bring my nid army. it sucks. ive started taking dev's and talons on my warriors because of that fact.
Eldar: W-26, L-4, D-2, Tyranid: W-8, L-0, D-0
I wonder if you are destined to be forgotten. Will your life fade in the shadow of greater beings?
Monstrous creatures actually can run fortunately. It's a tough call between running and using a gun. If you want ideas for melee/balanced fexes check the Tyrant/Carnifex build file up in the indexes. I find a useful upgrade to get some shooting on an all-melee fex is spinebanks (heck it's not bad on a shooting fex).